Anthony's Suspension Ends

Chris wrote:
> "David Misner" <miracleman2.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:12r95qv4nn09lb2@corp.supernews.com...
>> I do think this comment is interesting. It did not seem like Kobe and
>> Shaq got along and neither did McGrady and Vince Carter. I really like to
>> think that these two players can get along but we will see
>>
>
>
> I have no doubt that Iverson and Carmelo will mesh together. The real
> question will be the role players like Camby and Nene. It's certain that
> the role players will get less shots now that both stars are playing
> together. Many scouts think that Camby is one of the most selfish players
> in the league and prone to pout if he doesn't get his looks on offense...


Camby is getting the rebounds though. 17 points and 17 rebounds against
the Grizzlies. He had 22 rebounds in the game before that. The
question is what does he do with the ball after the rebound??
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Today's Jim Armstrong article in the post:

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_5072228?source=rss

Now for the real score: Nuggets 81, Memphis 55 with Camby on the
floor, and Grizz 43, Nuggets 34 with Camby taking a breather.

More numbers: Camby is averaging 17.9 rebounds in his past seven
games, and had a hat trick of games with seven blocked shots in
Anthony's absence.

Moral to the story? I'm not sure if they're going to put Melo on the
Western Conference all-star team, but they ought to put Camby on it.
....
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Howard Brazee wrote:
> Today's Jim Armstrong article in the post:
>
> http://www.denverpost.com/ci_5072228?source=rss
>
> Now for the real score: Nuggets 81, Memphis 55 with Camby on the
> floor, and Grizz 43, Nuggets 34 with Camby taking a breather.
>
> More numbers: Camby is averaging 17.9 rebounds in his past seven
> games, and had a hat trick of games with seven blocked shots in
> Anthony's absence.
>
> Moral to the story? I'm not sure if they're going to put Melo on the
> Western Conference all-star team, but they ought to put Camby on it.
> ...



I thought it was to keep Camby
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"Howard Brazee" <howard.DeleteThis@brazee.net> wrote in message
news:91ter2hnk5ir0dq6shr6eohrg6c3k60ap8@4ax.com...
> Today's Jim Armstrong article in the post:
>
> http://www.denverpost.com/ci_5072228?source=rss
>
> Now for the real score: Nuggets 81, Memphis 55 with Camby on the
> floor, and Grizz 43, Nuggets 34 with Camby taking a breather.
>
> More numbers: Camby is averaging 17.9 rebounds in his past seven
> games, and had a hat trick of games with seven blocked shots in
> Anthony's absence.
>
> Moral to the story? I'm not sure if they're going to put Melo on the
> Western Conference all-star team, but they ought to put Camby on it.
> ...

The NBA should keep +/- stats. It would be a measure of accountability for
guys in terms of what they add on both ends of the floor, even if they don't
score a lot. My guess is that Camby's +/- would be very high. And Earl
Boykins would be far and away the worst in the league. Btw, have I said
thank you yet to Milwaukee?
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On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 12:02:07 -0700, "BobInBoulder"
<binb DeleteThis @noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:

>The NBA should keep +/- stats. It would be a measure of accountability for
>guys in terms of what they add on both ends of the floor, even if they don't
>score a lot.

They wouldn't have the problem I see with the NHL, where I'd like to
see short handed goals count - and all goals count for the player
who's in the penalty box.

>My guess is that Camby's +/- would be very high. And Earl
>Boykins would be far and away the worst in the league. Btw, have I said
>thank you yet to Milwaukee?

Boykins was fun to watch, and there are plenty of lesser-paid players
with worse +/-. But that salary dump is looking like a talent
upgrade with Blake much better than I expected.

Only trouble - now that the Nuggets are a perennial playoff team, they
need defense.
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"Howard Brazee" <howard.RemoveThis@brazee.net> wrote in message
news:a10ir2d6rg0t0bi9oe90r7lh25bif7ojvn@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 12:02:07 -0700, "BobInBoulder"
> <binb.RemoveThis@noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:
>
>>The NBA should keep +/- stats. It would be a measure of accountability
>>for
>>guys in terms of what they add on both ends of the floor, even if they
>>don't
>>score a lot.
>
> They wouldn't have the problem I see with the NHL, where I'd like to
> see short handed goals count - and all goals count for the player
> who's in the penalty box.
>
>>My guess is that Camby's +/- would be very high. And Earl
>>Boykins would be far and away the worst in the league. Btw, have I said
>>thank you yet to Milwaukee?
>
> Boykins was fun to watch, and there are plenty of lesser-paid players
> with worse +/-. But that salary dump is looking like a talent
> upgrade with Blake much better than I expected.
>

Don't know. The Bucks are 1-6 since the trade with Earl logging around 40
minutes per game, including losses to Philly, Chicago, Seattle, Portland, LA
Clips and Sacramento, so my guess is that he has been a big minus. He has
had a few games where he played very well, just like after the AI trade, but
for the most part, he has been absolutely brutal on both ends of the court
for the better part of 2 seasons now. And Blake has been great so far with
the Nugs. The main differences between Blake and Earl: 1. Shot selection.
If Blake is off, he doesn't throw up 10 more prayers that have no business
being answered while taking his team out of the game. Earl would do that.
Regularly. The other night Blake was 0-4 against Seattle until the end of
the game. Then, he hit two clutch 3's to help them win, making him 2-6
overall, not good, but not 3-16 like Boykins would have ended up in yet
another Nugget loss. Another difference: 2. Blake is not a great defensive
player, but he does play defense. Boykins usually played matador D, knowing
that he had to gamble to even have a chance at making a difference.
Finally, 3. Blake is better at distributing the ball to guys in good scoring
position. Earl would usually dribble away the shot clock only to throw up a
prayer or pass the ball to someone on the perimeter. He was an absolutely
horrible point guard in the half court game. One of the worst I have ever
seen. Take Fat Lever and turn him inside out, and you have Earl Boykins.

The Nuggets are a much better team without Boykins, plain and simple. Even
if Blake were not playing well, just getting Boykins off of the court was
still a key to their future success. He was my least favorite Nugget, not
because of his stature, but because of what he did *to* the team, not *for*
the team.

> Only trouble - now that the Nuggets are a perennial playoff team, they
> need defense.

True. And their D has not been very good lately at all. That is what makes
Camby so valuable to this team. Melo and some of the other guys absolutely
have to pick it up on the defensive end or one of the monsters in the West
will kill this team come playoff time.
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In alt.sports.basketball.nba.denver-nuggets on Thu, 25 Jan 2007 12:02:07
-0700 BobInBoulder wrote:
>
>The NBA should keep +/- stats.
>
http://www.82games.com/0607/0607DEN.HTM
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On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 15:23:59 -0500, Fistpout Trebuchet
<humehnity DeleteThis @example.com> wrote:

>>The NBA should keep +/- stats.
>>
>http://www.82games.com/0607/0607DEN.HTM

Interesting - I'd like to find out how close Boykins is to the NBA
bottom and who's at the NBA top.
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On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 13:57:43 -0700, Howard Brazee <howard.TakeThisOut@brazee.net>
wrote:

>>>The NBA should keep +/- stats.
>>>
>>http://www.82games.com/0607/0607DEN.HTM
>
>Interesting - I'd like to find out how close Boykins is to the NBA
>bottom and who's at the NBA top.

I found old ratings for the top - which probably is fairly close:

http://www.82games.com/rolandratings0405.htm
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Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 13:57:43 -0700, Howard Brazee <howard.TakeThisOut@brazee.net>
> wrote:
>
>>>> The NBA should keep +/- stats.
>>>>
>>> http://www.82games.com/0607/0607DEN.HTM
>> Interesting - I'd like to find out how close Boykins is to the NBA
>> bottom and who's at the NBA top.
>
> I found old ratings for the top - which probably is fairly close:
>
> http://www.82games.com/rolandratings0405.htm
>



I wonder if players actually use this when it is time to negotiate a new
contract


Or it is used when an MVP is chosen
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On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 17:33:11 -0700, David Misner
<miracleman2 RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:

>I wonder if players actually use this when it is time to negotiate a new
>contract
>
>
>Or it is used when an MVP is chosen


They use what they can. But the owners care about who puts fans in
the seats. Wining helps that, but star power works anyway.

Look at the voting for the All-Star game. Notice how many players
were chosen from the leaders of the Western Divisions (Utah, Dallas, &
Phoenix).

Tell me if Yao Ming has been a better player this year than Marcus
Camby has. Tell me that Tracy McGrady has played better this year
than Allen Iverson has.

But fans not only vote - they are the paying customers.
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In alt.sports.basketball.nba.denver-nuggets on Fri, 26 Jan 2007 08:30:14
-0700 Howard Brazee wrote:

>Tell me if Yao Ming has been a better player this year than Marcus
>Camby has.

Yao Ming has been a better player this year than Marcus Camby.

> Tell me that Tracy McGrady has played better this year
>than Allen Iverson has.

Tracy McGrady has played better this year than Allen Iverson

Camby has had an excellent season, no question. And Iverson has been a nice
addition to the Nuggets. But lets not go overboard.

Yao is among the most efficient players in the league, and is also the first
option on his offense. He plays on the best defense in the league. He has
been the best center in the league over the last two seasons. Camby is at
best a secondary scoring option and plays on the 10th ranked defense.

With Yao out now, McGrady has played a similar role for the Rockets, running
the offense and contributing to what remains the best defense in the league.
Like McGrady, Iverson's scoring has been below average, but has contributed
to an overall above average offense with his passing and driving. Needless
to say, there is no match between these players defensively. Not even
including all the time missed by AI and the reasons for it, it would be hard
to justify choosing him over McGrady.
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On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 13:26:42 -0500, Fistpout Trebuchet
<humehnity.RemoveThis@example.com> wrote:

>>Tell me if Yao Ming has been a better player this year than Marcus
>>Camby has.
>
>Yao Ming has been a better player this year than Marcus Camby.

Marcus Camby has had one of those rare years when he hasn't been
injured. Yao Ming has been injured and his team has suffered.
Injuries count.

>> Tell me that Tracy McGrady has played better this year
>>than Allen Iverson has.
>
>Tracy McGrady has played better this year than Allen Iverson

This has been a down year for Tracy McGrady. Last year, I would put
him ahead of Allen, not this year.

>Camby has had an excellent season, no question. And Iverson has been a nice
>addition to the Nuggets. But lets not go overboard.
>
>Yao is among the most efficient players in the league, and is also the first
>option on his offense. He plays on the best defense in the league. He has
>been the best center in the league over the last two seasons.

There is an argument that "over the last two seasons" counts for
someone being a star. Shaq is a star, even though he hasn't done
much yet this year (he tends to be a Spring time player). Even
without playing Yao is a star. If that's what an all-star is, so be
it.

But some people think that all-stars should be voted in on what they
did this year. Carmelo and Yao have both missed too many games to
be starters by this criterion. (I'd like to see scoring titles based
upon points per season - not points per game played. If you don't
play a game, you score zero points)


> Camby is at best a secondary scoring option and plays on the 10th ranked defense.

Camby *is* the defense for the Nuggets. The difference between when
he is playing and when he is sitting is tremendous. He wouldn't be
as valuable if he had help.

>With Yao out now, McGrady has played a similar role for the Rockets, running
>the offense and contributing to what remains the best defense in the league.
>Like McGrady, Iverson's scoring has been below average, but has contributed
>to an overall above average offense with his passing and driving. Needless
>to say, there is no match between these players defensively. Not even
>including all the time missed by AI and the reasons for it, it would be hard
>to justify choosing him over McGrady.

Actually, his time missed may be the best reason for excluding AI.

I still think it is interesting that the three division leaders didn't
have any all-stars voted into the west team. Maybe when you have a
*team*, individuals don't stand out so much.
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