CELTICS CONTINUE TO DEBUNK MYTH OF "COACH" JACKSON

"Dennis" <bozak1.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:91a70500-36ea-4efe-a0e6-92b09067bbff@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 15, 3:11 pm, "Skeptic" <bcs0....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> Kobe is no better Iverson.-

hahahahahahahahahahaha... hilarious... and you wonder why
no one takes you serious...


**************************************************************
REPLY:

How's this for taking me serious - pre finals a I said Boston would games 1
and 2, lose game 3, win game 4, lose game, win game 6.

I've provided a rationale for a fair comparison to Kobe. If you disagree,
give some reasons. Cause they seem awfully similar to me ... in stats and
in success as the team's leader.
 >> Stay informed about: CELTICS CONTINUE TO DEBUNK MYTH OF "COACH" JACKSON 

On Jun 16, 1:24�pm, "Skeptic" <bcs0....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "MMM" <madmanmoo....TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:14f6ceea-609a-44b4-8bb6-123c0fd27557@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 16, 6:18?am, "Skeptic" <bcs0....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Dennis" <boz....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:91a70500-36ea-4efe-a0e6-92b09067bbff@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> > On Jun 15, 3:11 pm, "Skeptic" <bcs0....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Kobe is no better Iverson.-
>
> > hahahahahahahahahahaha... hilarious... and you wonder why
> > no one takes you serious...
>
> > **************************************************************
> > REPLY:
>
> > How's this for taking me serious - pre finals a I said Boston would games
> > 1
> > and 2, lose game 3, win game 4, lose game, win game 6.
>
> > I've provided a rationale for a fair comparison to Kobe. ?If you disagree,
> > give some reasons. ?Cause they seem awfully similar to me ... in stats and
> > in success as the team's leader.
>
> The 76ers' all-time record with Iverson in the lineup was barely
> above .500 (355-342), and in the 2006-2007 season, the 76ers posted a
> better win-loss record without Iverson in the lineup than with him.
>
> Kobe Bryant: 8-time All-Defensive Selection:
> First Team: 2000, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008
> Second Team: 2001, 2002
>
> *****************************************************************
>
> So that's your argument... that Kobe has more hype surrounding him than
> Iverson does? �Wow.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Excuse me but how can you possibly compare the two unless you consider
the facts. Fact is, Kobe is a great defender and Iverson is not. If
you discount the all-defensive selections for Kobe then go ahead and
discount the mvp award for Iverson..afterall, it's just a popularity
award anyways. So..what's left..? Ah yes, nerd stats...and rings..and
scoreboard.
 >> Stay informed about: CELTICS CONTINUE TO DEBUNK MYTH OF "COACH" JACKSON 

"MMM" <madmanmoon05.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in message
news:14f6ceea-609a-44b4-8bb6-123c0fd27557@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 16, 6:18?am, "Skeptic" <bcs0....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Dennis" <boz....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:91a70500-36ea-4efe-a0e6-92b09067bbff@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 15, 3:11 pm, "Skeptic" <bcs0....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Kobe is no better Iverson.-
>
> hahahahahahahahahahaha... hilarious... and you wonder why
> no one takes you serious...
>
> **************************************************************
> REPLY:
>
> How's this for taking me serious - pre finals a I said Boston would games
> 1
> and 2, lose game 3, win game 4, lose game, win game 6.
>
> I've provided a rationale for a fair comparison to Kobe. ?If you disagree,
> give some reasons. ?Cause they seem awfully similar to me ... in stats and
> in success as the team's leader.

The 76ers' all-time record with Iverson in the lineup was barely
above .500 (355-342), and in the 2006-2007 season, the 76ers posted a
better win-loss record without Iverson in the lineup than with him.

Kobe Bryant: 8-time All-Defensive Selection:
First Team: 2000, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008
Second Team: 2001, 2002

*****************************************************************

So that's your argument... that Kobe has more hype surrounding him than
Iverson does? Wow.
 >> Stay informed about: CELTICS CONTINUE TO DEBUNK MYTH OF "COACH" JACKSON 

On Jun 16, 8:19�pm, "Skeptic" <bcs0... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> "MMM" <madmanmoo... DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:9d307cec-a92f-4bd1-817f-99d1ee0b8091@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 16, 1:24?pm, "Skeptic" <bcs0... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "MMM" <madmanmoo... DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:14f6ceea-609a-44b4-8bb6-123c0fd27557@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
> > On Jun 16, 6:18?am, "Skeptic" <bcs0... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > "Dennis" <boz... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:91a70500-36ea-4efe-a0e6-92b09067bbff@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com....
> > > On Jun 15, 3:11 pm, "Skeptic" <bcs0... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Kobe is no better Iverson.-
>
> > > hahahahahahahahahahaha... hilarious... and you wonder why
> > > no one takes you serious...
>
> > > **************************************************************
> > > REPLY:
>
> > > How's this for taking me serious - pre finals a I said Boston would
> > > games
> > > 1
> > > and 2, lose game 3, win game 4, lose game, win game 6.
>
> > > I've provided a rationale for a fair comparison to Kobe. ?If you
> > > disagree,
> > > give some reasons. ?Cause they seem awfully similar to me ... in stats
> > > and
> > > in success as the team's leader.
>
> > The 76ers' all-time record with Iverson in the lineup was barely
> > above .500 (355-342), and in the 2006-2007 season, the 76ers posted a
> > better win-loss record without Iverson in the lineup than with him.
>
> > Kobe Bryant: 8-time All-Defensive Selection:
> > First Team: 2000, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008
> > Second Team: 2001, 2002
>
> > *****************************************************************
>
> > So that's your argument... that Kobe has more hype surrounding him than
> > Iverson does? ?Wow.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Excuse me but how can you possibly compare the two unless you consider
> the facts. Fact is, Kobe is a great defender and Iverson is not. If
> you discount the all-defensive selections for Kobe then go ahead and
> discount the mvp award for Iverson..afterall, it's just a popularity
> award anyways. So..what's left..? Ah yes, nerd stats...and rings..and
> scoreboard.
>
> ***************************************************************
>
> Kobe is a good not great defender. �Kobe can guard more players because of
> his size.

..and quickness. I'll concede good but definately better than the
average 2 guard.

> Iverson is also a good defender. �He plays the passing lanes well.

Iverson plays passing lanes because he likes to steal the ball, which
he is very good at. He also gambles and gets burned more times than he
makes steals..that doesn't make him a good defender at all.

> I'll happily discount Iverson's MVP. �You should know that when he got that
> award, I promptly labeled (in the C's NG) as the least valuable player to
> ever win an MVP and it was really a demonstration as to what useless such
> selections were (MVP, all defensive teams, etc.).

We agree Iverson was unworthy of his mvp..we disagree that all awards
and selections have no qualifying requirements and the players who
receive these selections and honors are always unworthy. You do not
get selected 8 times to the all-defensive team by NOT being above
average if not the best in your position.

> You should try watching games that don't involve Kobe someday.

You should try to watch a few games that does involve Kobe. I'm
certain you would be enlightened.
�
>Iverson is an amazing scorer.

Agreed..scorer only though.�

>Kobe is also.

Kobe is most dominate offensive force in the NBA today. This is not
just my opinion, ask any player, coach, or owner in the NBA what they
think. �

>Both play good D.

No. AI plays marginal D. Kobe is an 8 time all-defensive team
defender. �

>Neither has ever been able to lead their team to a championship.

Same ole dribble Laker fans hear from Kobe bashers. Kobe shared
equally in his championships, this is a TEAM game we are speaking of
and anyone who watched more than one half of Laker basketball would
know Kobe AND Shaq were leaders as well was Fox and Fish. You assume
that Shaq lead the Lakers and totally carried them on his
back..obviously, you're a Kobe basher. You discount Kobe's work ethic
and give Shaq credit for being overweight and unwilling to actually
push himself until he got to the playoffs. How do you think the Lakers
made it to the playoffs in the first place? Riding Shaq's coat tails?
And just an after thought..should Pippen strip himself of his rings
because really he just played with MJ and Jordan was totally
responsible for all their championships? Ridiculous. One more...on the
C's this season..who's your leader? Pierce? KG? Can't have more than
one so choose well. �

>Stats are similar.

Not all of them..just the ones you choose to use. You missed my little
number thing about Iverson so i'll re-post it for ya...

The 76ers' all-time record with Iverson in the lineup was barely
above .500 (355-342), and in the 2006-2007 season, the 76ers posted a
better win-loss record without Iverson in the lineup than with him. �

>Rings go to Kobe thanks to Shaq - but the good fortune to play with Shaq rather than
> Dalembert or Ratliff doesn't make Kobe better than Iverson - it makes him
> more fortunate.
>
Yadda yadda...see above.

> Kobe is a tall version of Iverson. �If that bothers you, think of Iverson as
> a short version of Kobe.- Hide quoted text -
>
I see Kobe as about equal height but more consistant and definately
more explosive and just all around better player than Paul Pierce.
Right now that's all that matters.
> - Show quoted text -
 >> Stay informed about: CELTICS CONTINUE TO DEBUNK MYTH OF "COACH" JACKSON 

"MMM" <madmanmoon05.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote in message
news:9d307cec-a92f-4bd1-817f-99d1ee0b8091@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 16, 1:24?pm, "Skeptic" <bcs0....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "MMM" <madmanmoo....RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:14f6ceea-609a-44b4-8bb6-123c0fd27557@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 16, 6:18?am, "Skeptic" <bcs0....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Dennis" <boz....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:91a70500-36ea-4efe-a0e6-92b09067bbff@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> > On Jun 15, 3:11 pm, "Skeptic" <bcs0....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Kobe is no better Iverson.-
>
> > hahahahahahahahahahaha... hilarious... and you wonder why
> > no one takes you serious...
>
> > **************************************************************
> > REPLY:
>
> > How's this for taking me serious - pre finals a I said Boston would
> > games
> > 1
> > and 2, lose game 3, win game 4, lose game, win game 6.
>
> > I've provided a rationale for a fair comparison to Kobe. ?If you
> > disagree,
> > give some reasons. ?Cause they seem awfully similar to me ... in stats
> > and
> > in success as the team's leader.
>
> The 76ers' all-time record with Iverson in the lineup was barely
> above .500 (355-342), and in the 2006-2007 season, the 76ers posted a
> better win-loss record without Iverson in the lineup than with him.
>
> Kobe Bryant: 8-time All-Defensive Selection:
> First Team: 2000, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008
> Second Team: 2001, 2002
>
> *****************************************************************
>
> So that's your argument... that Kobe has more hype surrounding him than
> Iverson does? ?Wow.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Excuse me but how can you possibly compare the two unless you consider
the facts. Fact is, Kobe is a great defender and Iverson is not. If
you discount the all-defensive selections for Kobe then go ahead and
discount the mvp award for Iverson..afterall, it's just a popularity
award anyways. So..what's left..? Ah yes, nerd stats...and rings..and
scoreboard.

***************************************************************

Kobe is a good not great defender. Kobe can guard more players because of
his size.
Iverson is also a good defender. He plays the passing lanes well.
I'll happily discount Iverson's MVP. You should know that when he got that
award, I promptly labeled (in the C's NG) as the least valuable player to
ever win an MVP and it was really a demonstration as to what useless such
selections were (MVP, all defensive teams, etc.).
You should try watching games that don't involve Kobe someday. Iverson is
an amazing scorer. Kobe is also. Both play good D. Neither has ever been
able to lead their team to a championship. Stats are similar. Rings go to
Kobe thanks to Shaq - but the good fortune to play with Shaq rather than
Dalembert or Ratliff doesn't make Kobe better than Iverson - it makes him
more fortunate.

Kobe is a tall version of Iverson. If that bothers you, think of Iverson as
a short version of Kobe.
 >> Stay informed about: CELTICS CONTINUE TO DEBUNK MYTH OF "COACH" JACKSON 

Pierce on Kobe:


"He's the whole focus for us," Pierce said. "He's a guy who can beat
you all by himself, so the whole game plan is (based) on stopping him
and making other guys beat us. It's just unfortunate that we let the
other guys beat us."


Wake me when Ray Allen is the entire focus of the Lakers' defense.


Dimitri
 >> Stay informed about: CELTICS CONTINUE TO DEBUNK MYTH OF "COACH" JACKSON 

In article <hmga54h0sr6ogvhtg31sol0pt03nmji5nk.DeleteThis@4ax.com>,
blozak <blozak.DeleteThis@eatadick.com> wrote:
>
[snip!]
>
>Just out of curiousity, how many times did Michael Jordan get hosed
>3-1, or maybe even 4-1, in his finals career? (Kobe has done it at
>least twice now.)


Twice? You mean once and it was because he was playing with Shaq who has
probably been swept out of more series than any other MVP.


Dimitri
 >> Stay informed about: CELTICS CONTINUE TO DEBUNK MYTH OF "COACH" JACKSON 

In article <e3G5k.211852$yE1.161728@attbi_s21>,
Skeptic <bcs002b.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
[snip!]
>
>Kobe is a tall version of Iverson. If that bothers you, think of Iverson as
>a short version of Kobe.


And both of them are better than Paul Pierce.


Dimitri
 >> Stay informed about: CELTICS CONTINUE TO DEBUNK MYTH OF "COACH" JACKSON 

In article <6e95k.209587$yE1.131064@attbi_s21>,
Skeptic <bcs002b.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Lebron or Garnett should have been the MVP. Kobe is the MVP this year for
>the same reasons the "experts" picked LA to win the series- unjustified
>hype.


So let's title this thread "Kobe vs. Garnett" and throw Garnett's 40% FG%
into the mix. Dreadful that he has to let a scrub like Ray Allen carry him
to the title.


>Pierce has been the most consistent, dangerous offensive weapon. BUT, of
>any Celtic, the one guy would torch any team would be Ray Allen if he were
>left unguarded. He is a pure shooter and he shoots when he's got a few
>inches of breathing room. The difference with Ray is that he is not a great
>playmaker in terms of freeing himself up (though he's also not as bad at it
>as others seem to think). IOW, defensively, any thought of not giving Ray
>equal attention is foolish.


Equal to Paul Pierce and Garnett? He's hardly deserving.


>> They should let Garnett go for 30 and 20?
>
>He's not that kind of player. He limits himself.


I thought he should've been the MVP. MVPs don't do that.


>I don't have to compare anyone I don't want to compare. Since YOU want to
>compare them, I'd say Ray is more than holding his own. In comparison to
>Kobe, Allen is just as as good and maybe better from a TEAM perspective.
>Kobe in place of Allen on the C's, for example, probably would have sunk the
>C's and they would NOT have won 66 games this year. They probably wouldn't
>have made the finals, either. He's just too selfish.


Yes, Kobe has proven that no team with him on it can make The Finals.
Especially not five times.


Dimitri
 >> Stay informed about: CELTICS CONTINUE TO DEBUNK MYTH OF "COACH" JACKSON 

"D. Gerasimatos" <dim RemoveThis @soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> wrote in message
news:g39193$a04$1@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU...
> In article <6e95k.209587$yE1.131064@attbi_s21>,
> Skeptic <bcs002b RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>Lebron or Garnett should have been the MVP. Kobe is the MVP this year for
>>the same reasons the "experts" picked LA to win the series- unjustified
>>hype.
>
>
> So let's title this thread "Kobe vs. Garnett" and throw Garnett's 40% FG%
> into the mix. Dreadful that he has to let a scrub like Ray Allen carry him
> to the title.
>
>
>>Pierce has been the most consistent, dangerous offensive weapon. BUT, of
>>any Celtic, the one guy would torch any team would be Ray Allen if he were
>>left unguarded. He is a pure shooter and he shoots when he's got a few
>>inches of breathing room. The difference with Ray is that he is not a
>>great
>>playmaker in terms of freeing himself up (though he's also not as bad at
>>it
>>as others seem to think). IOW, defensively, any thought of not giving Ray
>>equal attention is foolish.
>
>
> Equal to Paul Pierce and Garnett? He's hardly deserving.
>
>
>>> They should let Garnett go for 30 and 20?
>>
>>He's not that kind of player. He limits himself.
>
>
> I thought he should've been the MVP. MVPs don't do that.
>
>
>>I don't have to compare anyone I don't want to compare. Since YOU want to
>>compare them, I'd say Ray is more than holding his own. In comparison to
>>Kobe, Allen is just as as good and maybe better from a TEAM perspective.
>>Kobe in place of Allen on the C's, for example, probably would have sunk
>>the
>>C's and they would NOT have won 66 games this year. They probably
>>wouldn't
>>have made the finals, either. He's just too selfish.
>
>
> Yes, Kobe has proven that no team with him on it can make The Finals.
> Especially not five times.
>
>
> Dimitri

Are you just exercising or what? A good book would do the same without
having to... Oh, nevermind. ;-)

Carry on.

>
 >> Stay informed about: CELTICS CONTINUE TO DEBUNK MYTH OF "COACH" JACKSON 

"MMM" <madmanmoon05.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in message
news:57af818a-6ad4-4b4b-a2a8-62e37e00e684@w8g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 16, 8:19?pm, "Skeptic" <bcs0....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "MMM" <madmanmoo....TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:9d307cec-a92f-4bd1-817f-99d1ee0b8091@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 16, 1:24?pm, "Skeptic" <bcs0....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "MMM" <madmanmoo....TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:14f6ceea-609a-44b4-8bb6-123c0fd27557@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
> > On Jun 16, 6:18?am, "Skeptic" <bcs0....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > "Dennis" <boz....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:91a70500-36ea-4efe-a0e6-92b09067bbff@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> > > On Jun 15, 3:11 pm, "Skeptic" <bcs0....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Kobe is no better Iverson.-
>
> > > hahahahahahahahahahaha... hilarious... and you wonder why
> > > no one takes you serious...
>
> > > **************************************************************
> > > REPLY:
>
> > > How's this for taking me serious - pre finals a I said Boston would
> > > games
> > > 1
> > > and 2, lose game 3, win game 4, lose game, win game 6.
>
> > > I've provided a rationale for a fair comparison to Kobe. ?If you
> > > disagree,
> > > give some reasons. ?Cause they seem awfully similar to me ... in stats
> > > and
> > > in success as the team's leader.
>
> > The 76ers' all-time record with Iverson in the lineup was barely
> > above .500 (355-342), and in the 2006-2007 season, the 76ers posted a
> > better win-loss record without Iverson in the lineup than with him.
>
> > Kobe Bryant: 8-time All-Defensive Selection:
> > First Team: 2000, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008
> > Second Team: 2001, 2002
>
> > *****************************************************************
>
> > So that's your argument... that Kobe has more hype surrounding him than
> > Iverson does? ?Wow.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Excuse me but how can you possibly compare the two unless you consider
> the facts. Fact is, Kobe is a great defender and Iverson is not. If
> you discount the all-defensive selections for Kobe then go ahead and
> discount the mvp award for Iverson..afterall, it's just a popularity
> award anyways. So..what's left..? Ah yes, nerd stats...and rings..and
> scoreboard.
>
> ***************************************************************
>
> Kobe is a good not great defender. ?Kobe can guard more players because of
> his size.

...and quickness. I'll concede good but definately better than the
average 2 guard.

> Iverson is also a good defender. ?He plays the passing lanes well.

Iverson plays passing lanes because he likes to steal the ball, which
he is very good at. He also gambles and gets burned more times than he
makes steals..that doesn't make him a good defender at all.

> I'll happily discount Iverson's MVP. ?You should know that when he got
> that
> award, I promptly labeled (in the C's NG) as the least valuable player to
> ever win an MVP and it was really a demonstration as to what useless such
> selections were (MVP, all defensive teams, etc.).

We agree Iverson was unworthy of his mvp..we disagree that all awards
and selections have no qualifying requirements and the players who
receive these selections and honors are always unworthy. You do not
get selected 8 times to the all-defensive team by NOT being above
average if not the best in your position.

> You should try watching games that don't involve Kobe someday.

You should try to watch a few games that does involve Kobe. I'm
certain you would be enlightened.
?
>Iverson is an amazing scorer.

Agreed..scorer only though.?

>Kobe is also.

Kobe is most dominate offensive force in the NBA today. This is not
just my opinion, ask any player, coach, or owner in the NBA what they
think. ?

>Both play good D.

No. AI plays marginal D. Kobe is an 8 time all-defensive team
defender. ?

>Neither has ever been able to lead their team to a championship.

Same ole dribble Laker fans hear from Kobe bashers. Kobe shared
equally in his championships, this is a TEAM game we are speaking of
and anyone who watched more than one half of Laker basketball would
know Kobe AND Shaq were leaders as well was Fox and Fish. You assume
that Shaq lead the Lakers and totally carried them on his
back..obviously, you're a Kobe basher. You discount Kobe's work ethic
and give Shaq credit for being overweight and unwilling to actually
push himself until he got to the playoffs. How do you think the Lakers
made it to the playoffs in the first place? Riding Shaq's coat tails?
And just an after thought..should Pippen strip himself of his rings
because really he just played with MJ and Jordan was totally
responsible for all their championships? Ridiculous. One more...on the
C's this season..who's your leader? Pierce? KG? Can't have more than
one so choose well. ?

>Stats are similar.

Not all of them..just the ones you choose to use. You missed my little
number thing about Iverson so i'll re-post it for ya...

The 76ers' all-time record with Iverson in the lineup was barely
above .500 (355-342), and in the 2006-2007 season, the 76ers posted a
better win-loss record without Iverson in the lineup than with him. ?

>Rings go to Kobe thanks to Shaq - but the good fortune to play with Shaq
>rather than
> Dalembert or Ratliff doesn't make Kobe better than Iverson - it makes him
> more fortunate.
>
Yadda yadda...see above.

> Kobe is a tall version of Iverson. ?If that bothers you, think of Iverson
> as
> a short version of Kobe.- Hide quoted text -
>
I see Kobe as about equal height but more consistant and definately
more explosive and just all around better player than Paul Pierce.
Right now that's all that matters.
> - Show quoted text -


**************************************************************
Reply:

1. You continue to selectively discount certain awards. Iverson winning
the MVP is not something worth arguing, but Kobe getting selected tall
defensive teams is? You can't have it both ways. I'm in the camp that such
selections are devoid of any meaningful value in evaluating players. If you
want to cite them, go ahead, but they're popularity contests only loosely
based on ability. A continuation on that line of reasoning means you
concede the case that Kobe = Tall AI

2. Pippen deserves his rings. All of them. Just like Kobe does. Pippen
was, imo, MORE instrument to Chicago's success than Kobe was to LA's. I
think you'll disagree, but many would agree. Pippen was a very unique type
of player with his length, flexibility to play multiple positions, and he
actually WAS a great defender. I think replacing him during the Bulls Era
would have been very very hard. Kobe's role was a scorer. Someone to take
the burden off Shaq. Someone who could shoot and open up the interior.
That's the sort of role that is easily filled by Ray Allen, Reggie, Pierce,
Hamilton, Ginobili, Finley, and host of other players. Pippen without
Jordan didn't win any rings but got close. Kobe without Shaq hasn't won any
rings but got close.

3. You talk again about their teams' success. Absolutely ridiculous
reasoning. Iverson (and again, I'm no fan because of his ball hoggedness)
played for some really poor teams. He never had a period of time with the
game's most dominant center. He never really playd with a center. I think
the best guard he ever played next was Snow, who would struggle to not be
cut on most NBA teams. Kobe would have done no better with those teams.
Just like those of us in Boston don't fault Pierce for the C's futility last
year. Good player on a bad team.

4. Stats you say are for nerds. Ok. That doesn't leave you with much as
evidenced by the above 3 points.

Why don't you just say "because I said so"; that's about what you're left
with.
 >> Stay informed about: CELTICS CONTINUE TO DEBUNK MYTH OF "COACH" JACKSON 

In article <g39193$a04$1@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>,
D. Gerasimatos <dim RemoveThis @soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
>>IOW, defensively, any thought of not giving Ray
>>equal attention is foolish.
>
>Equal to Paul Pierce and Garnett? He's hardly deserving.

Game Four called. It has a couple of layups it wants to show you.

--
Bryant Durrell // durrell RemoveThis @innocence.com // durrell RemoveThis @gmail.com
 >> Stay informed about: CELTICS CONTINUE TO DEBUNK MYTH OF "COACH" JACKSON 

In article <9tWdnUgSjYKck8XVnZ2dnUVZ_r3inZ2d.DeleteThis@supernews.com>,
Bryant Durrell <durrell.DeleteThis@innocence.com> wrote:
>In article <g39193$a04$1@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU>,
>D. Gerasimatos <dim.DeleteThis@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> wrote:
>>>IOW, defensively, any thought of not giving Ray
>>>equal attention is foolish.
>>
>>Equal to Paul Pierce and Garnett? He's hardly deserving.
>
>Game Four called. It has a couple of layups it wants to show you.


It's easy to make layups when no one's paying attention to you in favor of your
more high-profile team members.


I'm curious if you also rate Fisher and his 0.4 as a better player than
Tim Duncan. I wouldn't be surprised, but I'm glad you hold so many Lakers
players in high esteem.


Dimitri
 >> Stay informed about: CELTICS CONTINUE TO DEBUNK MYTH OF "COACH" JACKSON