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Should Deng be untouchable...??

 
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td

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Since: Dec 23, 2006
Posts: 9



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:59 am
Post subject: Should Deng be untouchable...??
Archived from groups: alt>sports>basketball>nba>chicago-bulls (more info?)

Im not basing any discussion of trading Deng
or not trading him on how talented I think he
may or may not be. I love him as much as
anybody but the real issue should be
is he the best fit for the team going
forward. Im not sure.

Not comparing the two talent wise but
Deng and Noce bring basically the same
skill set to the table. Primarily outside
shooters, some going to the basket, rebound
hustle, defense. Yes Deng is more talented
than Noce but is he talented enough to
more than offset a guy like Gasol? I wonder.

Lets say Deng gets traded for Gasol and
now teams have to guard the post as well.
Given all the things that opens up and the
way that would change our offense Im not
sure Deng's absence would result in a huge
net loss and I think thats the thing to
consider.

The cold hard truth is that this group with
our core players is just spinning its wheels.
Yes they're a little better here and there
but on the whole this isn't a serious
contending team. Yes they try very
hard but that makes them cute, not
championship material.

There is not the will among these
guys to go out and kick serious ass
night in and night out which is a problem
cause they aint coastin' on talent. So
if thats the case, and I think two plus
years with this basic group proves that
to be true, then I think Pax has to look
at making a move. A big move.

I just don't see anymore big lightbulbs
going off with these guys. I thought an
improved Deng would make a lot of difference.
Deng has improved substantially. It hasn't
made a lot of difference. I'd be open to
trading any of them but I can see how
Deng would likely bring the most in
return.


td

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Bing

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Since: Jun 17, 2007
Posts: 2



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Should Deng be untouchable...?? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

> I just don't see anymore big lightbulbs
> going off with these guys. I thought an
> improved Deng would make a lot of difference.
> Deng has improved substantially. It hasn't
> made a lot of difference. I'd be open to
> trading any of them but I can see how
> Deng would likely bring the most in
> return.

I tend to agree, if it takes Deng to get an inside scoring threat/option, we
need to make it happen. Not saying I'd consider trading two of the Big 4,
but we have to let go of something to get the inside threat. For now, I'd
love to see them try and post up Deng a few times a game to see if he can
score in the paint. It doesn't have to be a big man, in the MJ days, MJ was
our inside threat. We just need somebody to get points off of post up
moves.
Bing


>
>
> td
>

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td

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Since: Dec 23, 2006
Posts: 9



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Should Deng be untouchable...?? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Feb 11, 6:28 pm, "Frank Rizzo" <champ91....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I wouldn't say untouchable for Deng. I don't think anyone is
> untouchable. What if Phx called and said we'll give you Nash and
> Marion for Deng and Duhon? If a trade makes your club better, you do
> it. Would I trade Deng straight up for Gasol? No way.
>


Well Phx isn't going to call and offer
Nash and Marion for Deng and Duhon.
Whattya think this is? BPL?

If you're Pax looking at the chronic
and habitual shortcomings of this team
I think you have to consider seriously a
deal that, bells and whistles aside, would
amount to Deng for Gasol. No matter how
much better you think Deng is going to
get, and I think he could get somewhat
better, he's never going to make the
other guy play the post honestly so
how do you so easily dismiss the
thought of trading him for a guy
who directly addresses a big fat
team issue that Deng will never
answer to? Deng at his very best
wont make *this* Bulls team substantially
better so if you don't want to trade
Deng then you have to think about
moving Gordon which is fine but
I doubt he brings as much value
in return.

td
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Frank Sereno

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Since: Jul 19, 2005
Posts: 10



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Should Deng be untouchable...?? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Frank Rizzo wrote:
>
>
> I wouldn't say untouchable for Deng. I don't think anyone is
> untouchable. What if Phx called and said we'll give you Nash and
> Marion for Deng and Duhon? If a trade makes your club better, you do
> it. Would I trade Deng straight up for Gasol? No way.
>
> Rizzo
>

But everything we've heard is that Memphis wants two players plus a 1st
round draft pick. The other thing everyone has to remember is that
Nocioni has the type of injury that can take months to heal. So it
isn't likely that Skiles will simply be able to plug Noce into Deng's
spot in the starting line up. We might end up seeing more of Malik...
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Frank Rizzo

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Since: Jan 15, 2006
Posts: 663



(Msg. 5) Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Should Deng be untouchable...?? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Feb 11, 5:15 pm, "td" <deck... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 11, 6:28 pm, "Frank Rizzo" <champ91... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I wouldn't say untouchable for Deng. I don't think anyone is
> > untouchable. What if Phx called and said we'll give you Nash and
> > Marion for Deng and Duhon? If a trade makes your club better, you do
> > it. Would I trade Deng straight up for Gasol? No way.
>
> Well Phx isn't going to call and offer
> Nash and Marion for Deng and Duhon.
> Whattya think this is? BPL?
>
> If you're Pax looking at the chronic
> and habitual shortcomings of this team
> I think you have to consider seriously a
> deal that, bells and whistles aside, would
> amount to Deng for Gasol. No matter how
> much better you think Deng is going to
> get, and I think he could get somewhat
> better, he's never going to make the
> other guy play the post honestly so
> how do you so easily dismiss the
> thought of trading him for a guy
> who directly addresses a big fat
> team issue that Deng will never
> answer to? Deng at his very best
> wont make *this* Bulls team substantially
> better so if you don't want to trade
> Deng then you have to think about
> moving Gordon which is fine but
> I doubt he brings as much value
> in return.
>
> td

easier to replace Gordon....I wouldn't trade Deng for Gasol. Deng is
not untouchable but I wouldn't make that trade. Garnett, yes..

Rizzo
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td

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Since: Dec 23, 2006
Posts: 9



(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Should Deng be untouchable...?? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Feb 11, 10:57 pm, "Frank Rizzo" <champ91... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> easier to replace Gordon....I wouldn't trade Deng for Gasol. Deng is
> not untouchable but I wouldn't make that trade. Garnett, yes..
>
> Rizzo-

I don't know that it is easier to replace
Gordon. Guys who can score in bunches
and get their shots off over almost anyone
don't grow on trees which isn't to say guys
like Deng do either but it isn't very likely that
you can just *find* another Gordon lying about.

td
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Frank Rizzo

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Since: Jan 15, 2006
Posts: 663



(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Should Deng be untouchable...?? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Feb 12, 12:03 pm, "td" <deck... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 11, 10:57 pm, "Frank Rizzo" <champ91... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > easier to replace Gordon....I wouldn't trade Deng for Gasol. Deng is
> > not untouchable but I wouldn't make that trade. Garnett, yes..
>
> > Rizzo-
>
> I don't know that it is easier to replace
> Gordon. Guys who can score in bunches
> and get their shots off over almost anyone
> don't grow on trees which isn't to say guys
> like Deng do either but it isn't very likely that
> you can just *find* another Gordon lying about.
>
> td

Big man's game. Lot's of 6'2 guys who can score and knock down the 3,
(maybe not as good as Gordon). Monta Ellis, JR Smith, Tony Parker,
Jason Terry, Marcus Williams, Gilbert (your buddy!) etc. Very very
few shut down perimeter defenders who can score nightly with a high
shooting percentage (Deng, Howard and ????).....I'm not discounting
Gordon's worth, but Deng is on a different level because his skill set
is more rare IMHO.

Rizzo
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td

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Since: Dec 23, 2006
Posts: 9



(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:48 am
Post subject: Re: Should Deng be untouchable...?? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Feb 13, 10:48 pm, "Frank Rizzo" <champ91....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 12, 12:03 pm, "td" <deck....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 11, 10:57 pm, "Frank Rizzo" <champ91....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > easier to replace Gordon....I wouldn't trade Deng for Gasol. Deng is
> > > not untouchable but I wouldn't make that trade. Garnett, yes..
>
> > > Rizzo-
>
> > I don't know that it is easier to replace
> > Gordon. Guys who can score in bunches
> > and get their shots off over almost anyone
> > don't grow on trees which isn't to say guys
> > like Deng do either but it isn't very likely that
> > you can just *find* another Gordon lying about.
>
> > td
>
> Big man's game. Lot's of 6'2 guys who can score and knock down the 3,
> (maybe not as good as Gordon). Monta Ellis, JR Smith, Tony Parker,
> Jason Terry, Marcus Williams, Gilbert (your buddy!) etc. Very very
> few shut down perimeter defenders who can score nightly with a high
> shooting percentage (Deng, Howard and ????).....I'm not discounting
> Gordon's worth, but Deng is on a different level because his skill set
> is more rare IMHO.
>
> Rizzo-


Its not a matter of whether or not other there are
other players like Gordon in the world its a matter
of how likely the Bulls are to lay their hands on them
if they were to trade Gordon and aint 'a one of them
guys you mention gonna be in Bull's red next season.
I think the kind of players who might be had are the
Chucky Atkins of the world and that aint the same
thing at all.

If it came down to it plugging in Noce for Deng
while adding Gasol is a much better fit than
plugging in Duhon for Gordon......


td
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td

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Since: Dec 23, 2006
Posts: 9



(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:24 am
Post subject: Re: Should Deng be untouchable...?? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Feb 14, 3:07 pm, "Frank Rizzo" <champ91... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> If the type of player that Gordon represents is a more plentiful
> commodity then he would be easier to find a replacement player with
> the same skill set through the draft, trade, or free agency then one
> who's skill set is a much more rare commodity like Dent. Nocioni is a
> good hard nosed player but does not bring nearly all the tools that
> Deng does.. Sorry if I did not make that clear enough in my other
> post.
>
> Rizzo-

Then throw out some names of these
plentiful guys who the Bulls might actually
sign so we could compare apples to apples.

And Deng and Noce are much much more
comparable than you think in terms of what
they do. Yes Deng is the more talented of
the two but they have virtually the same game
so if you trade Deng you've got your starting
SF ready to plug in the day you make the trade.
If you trade Gordon you don't have a guard
on the bench thats a starter in the NBA.

That said I don't care which one gets traded if
the trade upgrades the team but I think the fact
is that Deng is likely to bring higher quality.


td
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