Bucks are Finsihed For the Year!

"Daniel Ray Giese" <dray.TakeThisOut@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:c32scu$ai0$1@uwm.edu...
> John <jlentz.TakeThisOut@nospam.wi.rr.com> wrote:
> : Well, it looks like it.
>
> : They blew away the last 3 games that they should have won. Especially
> : today's game and against Philadelphia. Just no reason for this!
>
> : What is their problem????
>
> : If they can't figure out their problems now, then I hope they loose the
rest
> : of the games this season so they can get out of the playoffs!
>
> IMO the Bucks desparately need TJ Ford. They also seem to be giving Van
> Horn too many minutes, and too crucial a role. If he doesn't score, he is
> useless on the court. But he also can't be the only scoring threat on the
> court. IMO his game doesn't mesh well (yet) with Mason's game. I
thought,
> oddly enough, that Walton saw a clear problem in lack of motion by Brevin
> Knight. He is also a defensive liability, so if he can't create on
offense
> he shouldn't see the court.
>
> IMO, cut Van Horn to 30 min max, filling the role with Kukoc and Santiago.
> Platoon the back-up PG between Knight and Strickland even in min. But I
> don't have any system worked out, so I could be wrong ...
>
> Dan Giese
> dray.TakeThisOut@uwm.edu

Heh! As you can see I wrote that immediately after today's game. Obviously
I was very upset when I wrote that. I had a reason to. They really should
not have again loused this game up.

They have to do something. Its very possible T.J. Ford being gone has a lot
to do with it.

I heard that he may not be back for the rest of the season. His back injury
is supposedly a lot more serious then they thought.

How about that Tim Thomas against the Bucks. He sure had fun going up
against the team he hated and played on for the last couple years. Even
thou Cassell and Ray Allen were traded away he still didn't come through
with the Bucks, I guess his poor playing meant he really didn't want to play
on the Bucks anymore. I guess when he was finally traded to another team
then he decided to start playing Basketball again.

-John L.
 >> Stay informed about: Bucks are Finsihed For the Year! 

>From: Daniel Ray Giese dray.DeleteThis@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu
>
>IMO the Bucks desparately need TJ Ford. They also seem to be giving Van
>Horn too many minutes, and too crucial a role. If he doesn't score, he is
>useless on the court.
>
>
He's earned a crucial role by virtue of his performance thus far. He's the
second-best shooter on the team and someone the Bucks can run their offense
through in the low post. I definitely want him on the floor playing major
minutes on this team.
>
>
>But he also can't be the only scoring threat on the
>court. IMO his game doesn't mesh well (yet) with Mason's game. I thought,
>oddly enough, that Walton saw a clear problem in lack of motion by Brevin
>Knight. He is also a defensive liability, so if he can't create on offense
>he shouldn't see the court.
>
>
He's done next to nothing lately. Porter really should consider going back
to Strickland as the backup PG. He's not a pure PG, but he provides energy and
is a much better shooter than Knight.
>
>
>IMO, cut Van Horn to 30 min max, filling the role with Kukoc and Santiago.
>
>
Kukoc's role should be reduced. He's offering next to nothing in too many
games and his shooting problems are becoming a significant problem. Van Horn
and Mason should handle the bulk of the minutes at the 3 spot with Smith and
Van Horn getting the bulk of the work at the 4 spot. Santiago has nothing to
offer of significance at this point in my opinion.
 >> Stay informed about: Bucks are Finsihed For the Year! 

humbubba.RemoveThis@smart.net
>John <jlentz.RemoveThis@nospam.wi.rr.com> wrote:
>: Well, it looks like it.
>
>: They blew away the last 3 games that they should have won. Especially
>: today's game and against Philadelphia. Just no reason for this!
>
>: What is their problem????
>
>: If they can't figure out their problems now, then I hope they loose the rest
>: of the games this season so they can get out of the playoffs!

>
>IMO the Bucks desparately need TJ Ford. They also seem to be giving Van
>Horn too many minutes, and too crucial a role. If he doesn't score, he is

As I said, on Van Horn. The TJ Ford thing will be OK with Knight and
Jones, but that's the kind of thing that can take a minute.


>useless on the court. But he also can't be the only scoring threat on the
>court. IMO his game doesn't mesh well (yet) with Mason's game. I thought,
>oddly enough, that Walton saw a clear problem in lack of motion by Brevin
>Knight. He is also a defensive liability, so if he can't create on offense
>he shouldn't see the court.

Brevin Knight gets A LOT of steals. Be patient.

>
>IMO, cut Van Horn to 30 min max, filling the role with Kukoc and Santiago.
>Platoon the back-up PG between Knight and Strickland even in min. But I
>don't have any system worked out, so I could be wrong ...

Strickland is a 2, Jones is a 1. All the Bucks can score, besides the PGs.

My usual rotation scheme, per quarter....

12 10 8 6 4 2 0 gameclock
Skinner Gadzuric Santiago
Van Horn Kukoc Smith
Redd Mason
Strickland Redd
Knight Jones


All the bigs play 16 in 4 4-minute stints. Mason and Redd play 36,
Strickland, Knight and Jones play 24.

This is fire-and-forget. This is also something the Standford coach said,
players know how long they will play and can thus budget themselves
accordingly.

Run. You have 6 bigs that can play. Run 'em.

Redd, Strickland and Knight is small. Don't worry about it.

This is NOT "my system".

>
>Dan Giese
>dray@uwm.edu

Rick Hohensee
Precision Mojo Engineer
 >> Stay informed about: Bucks are Finsihed For the Year! 

humbubba DeleteThis @smart.net
>
>"Daniel Ray Giese" <dray DeleteThis @alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
>news:c32scu$ai0$1@uwm.edu...
>> John <jlentz DeleteThis @nospam.wi.rr.com> wrote:
>> : Well, it looks like it.
>>
>> : They blew away the last 3 games that they should have won. Especially
>> : today's game and against Philadelphia. Just no reason for this!
>>
>> : What is their problem????
>>
>> : If they can't figure out their problems now, then I hope they loose the
>rest
>> : of the games this season so they can get out of the playoffs!
>>
>> IMO the Bucks desparately need TJ Ford. They also seem to be giving Van
>> Horn too many minutes, and too crucial a role. If he doesn't score, he is
>> useless on the court. But he also can't be the only scoring threat on the
>> court. IMO his game doesn't mesh well (yet) with Mason's game. I
>thought,
>> oddly enough, that Walton saw a clear problem in lack of motion by Brevin
>> Knight. He is also a defensive liability, so if he can't create on
>offense
>> he shouldn't see the court.
>>
>> IMO, cut Van Horn to 30 min max, filling the role with Kukoc and Santiago.
>> Platoon the back-up PG between Knight and Strickland even in min. But I
>> don't have any system worked out, so I could be wrong ...
>>
>> Dan Giese
>> dray DeleteThis @uwm.edu
>
>Heh! As you can see I wrote that immediately after today's game. Obviously
>I was very upset when I wrote that. I had a reason to. They really should
>not have again loused this game up.
>
>They have to do something. Its very possible T.J. Ford being gone has a lot
>to do with it.
>
>I heard that he may not be back for the rest of the season. His back injury
>is supposedly a lot more serious then they thought.

That is tremendously bad news. He may never be back. Don't mess around
with a spine.

>
>How about that Tim Thomas against the Bucks. He sure had fun going up
>against the team he hated and played on for the last couple years. Even
>thou Cassell and Ray Allen were traded away he still didn't come through
>with the Bucks, I guess his poor playing meant he really didn't want to play
>on the Bucks anymore. I guess when he was finally traded to another team
>then he decided to start playing Basketball again.
>
>-John L.
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Bucks are Finsihed For the Year! 

humbubba DeleteThis @smart.net
>>From: Daniel Ray Giese dray DeleteThis @alpha1.csd.uwm.edu
>>
>>IMO the Bucks desparately need TJ Ford. They also seem to be giving Van
>>Horn too many minutes, and too crucial a role. If he doesn't score, he is
>>useless on the court.
>>
>>
> He's earned a crucial role by virtue of his performance thus far. He's the
>second-best shooter on the team and someone the Bucks can run their offense
>through in the low post. I definitely want him on the floor playing major
>minutes on this team.
>>
>>
>>But he also can't be the only scoring threat on the
>>court. IMO his game doesn't mesh well (yet) with Mason's game. I thought,
>>oddly enough, that Walton saw a clear problem in lack of motion by Brevin
>>Knight. He is also a defensive liability, so if he can't create on offense
>>he shouldn't see the court.
>>
>>
> He's done next to nothing lately. Porter really should consider going back
>to Strickland as the backup PG. He's not a pure PG, but he provides energy and
>is a much better shooter than Knight.
>>
>>
>>IMO, cut Van Horn to 30 min max, filling the role with Kukoc and Santiago.
>>
>>
> Kukoc's role should be reduced. He's offering next to nothing in too many
>games and his shooting problems are becoming a significant problem. Van Horn
>and Mason should handle the bulk of the minutes at the 3 spot with Smith and
>Van Horn getting the bulk of the work at the 4 spot. Santiago has nothing to
>offer of significance at this point in my opinion.
>
>

Knight only had 15 minutes. Relax. Things will gel.

Rick Hohensee
Precision Mojo Engineer
 >> Stay informed about: Bucks are Finsihed For the Year! 

Daniel Ray Giese <dray RemoveThis @alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message news:<c32scu$ai0$1@uwm.edu>...
> John <jlentz RemoveThis @nospam.wi.rr.com> wrote:
> : Well, it looks like it.
>
> : They blew away the last 3 games that they should have won. Especially
> : today's game and against Philadelphia. Just no reason for this!
>
> : What is their problem????
>
> : If they can't figure out their problems now, then I hope they loose the rest
> : of the games this season so they can get out of the playoffs!
>
> IMO the Bucks desparately need TJ Ford. They also seem to be giving Van
> Horn too many minutes, and too crucial a role. If he doesn't score, he is
> useless on the court. But he also can't be the only scoring threat on the
> court. IMO his game doesn't mesh well (yet) with Mason's game. I thought,
> oddly enough, that Walton saw a clear problem in lack of motion by Brevin
> Knight. He is also a defensive liability, so if he can't create on offense
> he shouldn't see the court.

Looking at it, I agree. Losing TJ has been HUGE. Damon Jones is
playing very well. But, when you had Ford starting and Damon coming
off the bench, you didn't lose anything in running the offense.
Knight hasn't done much of anything and it's been apparent that the
team really misses the leadership of Jones on the second team.

It also looks like the big guys are hitting a wall, defensively.
Also, Kukoc isn't playing as well as he had earlier this season.

Thoughts on changing? Strickland should be playing the backup point
and picking up some minutes at off guard too. Knight should be a deep
bench guy. Haslip and Santiago should get a little burn too, if
anything, to give the rest of the bigs a little more rest and maybe
the enegery will be there at the end.

Sorry Dan, we about mirror the same thoughts. :)

Gary Heidenreich


> IMO, cut Van Horn to 30 min max, filling the role with Kukoc and Santiago.
> Platoon the back-up PG between Knight and Strickland even in min. But I
> don't have any system worked out, so I could be wrong ...
>
> Dan Giese
> dray RemoveThis @uwm.edu
 >> Stay informed about: Bucks are Finsihed For the Year! 

>From: r@cLIeNUX. (cLIeNUX user)
>
>humbubba@smart.net
>>>From: Daniel Ray Giese dray.DeleteThis@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu
>>>
>>>IMO the Bucks desparately need TJ Ford. They also seem to be giving Van
>>>Horn too many minutes, and too crucial a role. If he doesn't score, he is
>>>useless on the court.
>>>
>>>
>> He's earned a crucial role by virtue of his performance thus far. He's
>the
>>second-best shooter on the team and someone the Bucks can run their offense
>>through in the low post. I definitely want him on the floor playing major
>>minutes on this team.
>>>
>>>
>>>But he also can't be the only scoring threat on the
>>>court. IMO his game doesn't mesh well (yet) with Mason's game. I thought,
>>>oddly enough, that Walton saw a clear problem in lack of motion by Brevin
>>>Knight. He is also a defensive liability, so if he can't create on offense
>>>he shouldn't see the court.
>>>
>>>
>> He's done next to nothing lately. Porter really should consider going
>back
>>to Strickland as the backup PG. He's not a pure PG, but he provides energy
>and
>>is a much better shooter than Knight.
>>>
>>>
>>>IMO, cut Van Horn to 30 min max, filling the role with Kukoc and Santiago.
>>>
>>>
>> Kukoc's role should be reduced. He's offering next to nothing in too many
>>games and his shooting problems are becoming a significant problem. Van Horn
>>and Mason should handle the bulk of the minutes at the 3 spot with Smith and
>>Van Horn getting the bulk of the work at the 4 spot. Santiago has nothing to
>>offer of significance at this point in my opinion.
>>
>>
>
>Knight only had 15 minutes. Relax. Things will gel.
>
>
And he was completely worthless in those 15 minutes. And this isn't the time
to relax. The Bucks have choked away an easy part of their schedule the past
two weeks. They need to have a sense of urgency and the current status quo
won't cut it. Knight has shown nothing of late and if he cannot start showing
something then Porter needs to go back to Strickland as the No. 2 PG. It's all
about production right now. There is no margin for error, the Bucks have seen
to that with their poor play the past couple of weeks.
 >> Stay informed about: Bucks are Finsihed For the Year! 

> And he was completely worthless in those 15 minutes. And this isn't the time
> to relax. The Bucks have choked away an easy part of their schedule the past
> two weeks. They need to have a sense of urgency and the current status quo
> won't cut it. Knight has shown nothing of late and if he cannot start showing
> something then Porter needs to go back to Strickland as the No. 2 PG. It's all
> about production right now. There is no margin for error, the Bucks have seen
> to that with their poor play the past couple of weeks.

The bucks should have beaten Miami, Cleveland, Phili, and New York (I
will give them the lose to Denver), they could have easily made a run
at not only securing the 4'th spot in the east, but easily moved on to
the 4'th... They are blowing games lately that should be give-me's...
What are they going to do when they hit the road vs' the West...

The team has changed... I don't know what it is... but I remember the
first half of the season, I was so impressed with how hard they
played... now... its like with a 26 point 3'rd quarter lead they
lose... not once, but twice... this is sick...

It just gets old after awhile... I have supported & followed the bucks
all year, when a lot of other people I know gave up or gave them no
chance in hell... to see them crumbling right now, I just have this
feeling that this is the beginning of the end... They are bound to
lose many more games in the next two months... then if they make it to
the playoffs, get blown out...

Who knows... I guess I just thought they could be the underdogs of
basketball & prove everyone wrong, like the Marlins in Baseball... But
once again, another Wisconsin sports team lets us down....

I pray for the best... but expect the worst...
 >> Stay informed about: Bucks are Finsihed For the Year! 

humbubba.RemoveThis@smart.net
>>From: r@cLIeNUX. (cLIeNUX user)
>>
>>humbubba@smart.net
>>>>From: Daniel Ray Giese dray.RemoveThis@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu
>>>>
>>>>IMO the Bucks desparately need TJ Ford. They also seem to be giving Van
>>>>Horn too many minutes, and too crucial a role. If he doesn't score, he is
>>>>useless on the court.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> He's earned a crucial role by virtue of his performance thus far. He's
>>the
>>>second-best shooter on the team and someone the Bucks can run their offense
>>>through in the low post. I definitely want him on the floor playing major
>>>minutes on this team.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>But he also can't be the only scoring threat on the
>>>>court. IMO his game doesn't mesh well (yet) with Mason's game. I thought,
>>>>oddly enough, that Walton saw a clear problem in lack of motion by Brevin
>>>>Knight. He is also a defensive liability, so if he can't create on offense
>>>>he shouldn't see the court.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> He's done next to nothing lately. Porter really should consider going
>>back
>>>to Strickland as the backup PG. He's not a pure PG, but he provides energy
>>and
>>>is a much better shooter than Knight.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>IMO, cut Van Horn to 30 min max, filling the role with Kukoc and Santiago.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Kukoc's role should be reduced. He's offering next to nothing in too many
>>>games and his shooting problems are becoming a significant problem. Van Horn
>>>and Mason should handle the bulk of the minutes at the 3 spot with Smith and
>>>Van Horn getting the bulk of the work at the 4 spot. Santiago has nothing to
>>>offer of significance at this point in my opinion.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Knight only had 15 minutes. Relax. Things will gel.
>>
>>
> And he was completely worthless in those 15 minutes. And this isn't the time


4 assists in 15 minutes is doing what he's supposed to. 3 fouls and no
steals is acclimation problems.

>to relax. The Bucks have choked away an easy part of their schedule the past
>two weeks. They need to have a sense of urgency and the current status quo
>won't cut it. Knight has shown nothing of late and if he cannot start showing
>something then Porter needs to go back to Strickland as the No. 2 PG. It's all
>about production right now. There is no margin for error, the Bucks have seen
>to that with their poor play the past couple of weeks.
 >> Stay informed about: Bucks are Finsihed For the Year! 

humbubba.DeleteThis@smart.net


>It just gets old after awhile... I have supported & followed the bucks
>all year, when a lot of other people I know gave up or gave them no
>chance in hell... to see them crumbling right now, I just have this
>feeling that this is the beginning of the end... They are bound to
>lose many more games in the next two months... then if they make it to
>the playoffs, get blown out...
>

Again, Redd said thier defense needs a little work. Like adopting my
system.

humbubba.DeleteThis@smart.net

Rick Hohensee
 >> Stay informed about: Bucks are Finsihed For the Year! 

Europa2846 <europa2846.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote:
:>From: Daniel Ray Giese dray.RemoveThis@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu

:>IMO, cut Van Horn to 30 min max, filling the role with Kukoc and Santiago.
:>
: Kukoc's role should be reduced. He's offering next to nothing in too many
: games and his shooting problems are becoming a significant problem. Van Horn
: and Mason should handle the bulk of the minutes at the 3 spot with Smith and
: Van Horn getting the bulk of the work at the 4 spot. Santiago has nothing to
: offer of significance at this point in my opinion.

I disagree about Kukoc - I think he would be much more valuable in a
rotation without Van Horn, as they both have height, post-up moves, and a
lack of D. When both are on the floor, Kukoc has been given a secondary
role. If not more, then he should get better "quality" minutes.

IMO the problem is twofold - 1) that Van Horn, while a great scorer, cannot
"shoot himself out of a slump" so when he gets into an 0-6 or 0-8 he should
see the pine. I do not believe it is a coincidence that the Bucks made a
late surge against Philly after Van Horn fouled out. 2) I think that Van
Horn and Knight getting so many minutes is why this team isn't playing as
tough as they started - while guys like Strickland, Mason, and Santiago
may not be as talented offensively, I think that the team may start
questioning when the team brings in players who weren't responsible for the
team's rise, who don't give max effort, and aren't called on it. And IMO
Redd is the only Buck who deserves 35 min a night.

While I still think Van Horn is a better player than Thomas, I continue to
think the trade was a mistake which will end up costing the Bucks in the
future years. I think the Bucks should start thinking about crafting a
deal to entice the expansion team to take Van Horn, if possible.

Dan Giese
dray.RemoveThis@uwm.edu
 >> Stay informed about: Bucks are Finsihed For the Year! 

>From: gheiden.RemoveThis@mail.mcw.edu (Gary Heidenreich)
>
>Looking at it, I agree. Losing TJ has been HUGE. Damon Jones is
>playing very well. But, when you had Ford starting and Damon coming
>off the bench, you didn't lose anything in running the offense.
>Knight hasn't done much of anything and it's been apparent that the
>team really misses the leadership of Jones on the second team.
>
>
Ford's absence has been a real problem. Even when Jones is playing well, the
team is so different then when Ford is on the floor. Their transition game has
suffered greatly and the half-court game misses Ford's ability to break down a
defense with penetration and get good looks because of Ford's superb passing
ability. And as you point out, the rotations are affected because Jones has to
move up and nobody has adequately replaced him with the second team.
>
>
>It also looks like the big guys are hitting a wall, defensively.
>Also, Kukoc isn't playing as well as he had earlier this season.
>
>
Nope and I've been saying all along the problem starts with the backline
defenders (Smith and Skinner and Gadzuric). Their production has dipped since
the break and I have no idea why that is. When the Bucks build the 26-point
lead, how did they do it? Essentially it was with Smith and Skinner setting the
tone on both ends of the floor. Van Horn and Redd were shooting very well, but
I thought the key was Smith and Skinner's play. Then the game was lost when the
Knicks' frontcourt (Kurt Thomas in particular) woke up and began to dominate.
For the Bucks to get back on track, I really think it has to start with Smith
and Skinner and Gadzuric to a lesser extent getting back to a consistent level
of production.
>
>
>Thoughts on changing? Strickland should be playing the backup point
>and picking up some minutes at off guard too. Knight should be a deep
>bench guy.
>
>
I agree. There's just no time left and no margin for error to give Knight a
chance to fit in. The Bucks have squandered everything and need wins badly.
That means going with a proven commodity which is Strickland. He has played
well nearly every time he's been called upon this season.
>
>
>Haslip and Santiago should get a little burn too, if
>anything, to give the rest of the bigs a little more rest and maybe
>the enegery will be there at the end.
>
>
I just don't see what Santiago can offer - especially defensively where he's
extremely limited. I don't have a problem working Haslip into the rotation,
though - especially if Kukoc continues to labor. Haslip did provide a terrific
boost down the stretch last season. Maybe he can do the same again this year.
 >> Stay informed about: Bucks are Finsihed For the Year!