Fire Carlisle!!

Bush is the AntiChrist!! wrote:
> Carlisle has shown not only can he not control Artest, but that he
can't
> control the team as a whole. When Isiah was here, there was never a
> fight and he managed to reel in Artest.

as i pointed out before, but as you continue to ignore, artest was a
model citizen *until* isiah got his hands on him. he *did* get in
fights, he *did* get suspended numerous times, he *was* out of control
under isiah. under carlisle last year, he was a far better citizen than
he ever was under isiah.

> Larry Bird and Carlisle have
> screwed this entire team up.

yeah, they won, what, 63 games last year? they really screwed it up
from that 48-win season a year previous.

>
> Now all they have are five or six players for the next two months!

and yet they still keep winning. maybe because they have talent and
they know how to use it, something nba gm's and coaches are supposed to
do.

but keep yapping. by the time you get done, the pacers may set a new
record for wins on the season.

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 >> Stay informed about: Fire Carlisle!! 

mr. gone wrote:

> Bush is the AntiChrist!! wrote:
>
>>Carlisle has shown not only can he not control Artest, but that he
>
> can't
>
>>control the team as a whole. When Isiah was here, there was never a
>>fight and he managed to reel in Artest.
>
>
> as i pointed out before, but as you continue to ignore, artest was a
> model citizen *until* isiah got his hands on him. he *did* get in
> fights, he *did* get suspended numerous times, he *was* out of control
> under isiah. under carlisle last year, he was a far better citizen than
> he ever was under isiah.

He wasn't a model citizen this year from the get go. Immediate
suspension by Bird, then the fight and a season suspension. Maybe
Isiah was doing some kind of long distance mind control?

>
>
>>Larry Bird and Carlisle have
>>screwed this entire team up.
>
>
> yeah, they won, what, 63 games last year? they really screwed it up
> from that 48-win season a year previous.

Uhm, so? What difference does it make if it doesn't produce a ring?
Which they didn't. In fact they were beaten by a lower seeded team and
didn't even make the finals. Yeah, what an accomplishment.

>
>
>>Now all they have are five or six players for the next two months!
>
>
> and yet they still keep winning. maybe because they have talent and
> they know how to use it, something nba gm's and coaches are supposed to
> do.
>
> but keep yapping. by the time you get done, the pacers may set a new
> record for wins on the season.

LOL! They can't even beat the clippers, and just lost to seattle. Any
team is capable of beating another team in the NBA, the Pacers have
proved that much, but the FACT is that they don't have their heavy
hitters and they will suffer...badly. Regardless, you are just
dismissing this travesty of a brawl, as a non managment issue. That is
ridiculous. When things were going bad for Isiah, you folks were
pointing directly at him with the mantra "he is in charge" and "the
coach is responsible for the player's actions".
When this stuff happens under Carlisle it is a double standard. Gee? I
wonder why that is? Hmmmm. Let me sleep on that answer.
>
>
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 >> Stay informed about: Fire Carlisle!! 

"Bush is the AntiChrist!! " <tle_mgr.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<56mdnSxGdeaUKDLcRVn-hw.TakeThisOut@comcast.com>...
> mr. gone wrote:
>
> > Bush is the AntiChrist!! wrote:
> >
> >>Carlisle has shown not only can he not control Artest, but that he
> >
> > can't
> >
> >>control the team as a whole. When Isiah was here, there was never a
> >>fight and he managed to reel in Artest.
> >
> >
> > as i pointed out before, but as you continue to ignore, artest was a
> > model citizen *until* isiah got his hands on him. he *did* get in
> > fights, he *did* get suspended numerous times, he *was* out of control
> > under isiah. under carlisle last year, he was a far better citizen than
> > he ever was under isiah.
>
> He wasn't a model citizen this year from the get go. Immediate
> suspension by Bird, then the fight and a season suspension. Maybe
> Isiah was doing some kind of long distance mind control?
>
or maybe bird and carlisle did the right thing by suspending him,
something isiah probably wouldn't have done.
> >
> >
> >>Larry Bird and Carlisle have
> >>screwed this entire team up.
> >
> >
> > yeah, they won, what, 63 games last year? they really screwed it up
> > from that 48-win season a year previous.
>
> Uhm, so? What difference does it make if it doesn't produce a ring?
> Which they didn't. In fact they were beaten by a lower seeded team and
> didn't even make the finals. Yeah, what an accomplishment.

1) detroit made a trade at the deadline that made them clearly the
better team.

2) the previous year, the pacers were swept out of the first round by
the celtics, a clearly inferior team, meaning the pacers were poorly
coached. but don't let the facts of isiah's far greater blunders cloud
your thinking. i mean, you just know for a fact, like the guy you call
the antichrist, one thing is the case (in this case, isiah's the
better coach), even when all the facts show otherwise.
>
> >
> >
> >>Now all they have are five or six players for the next two months!
> >
> >
> > and yet they still keep winning. maybe because they have talent and
> > they know how to use it, something nba gm's and coaches are supposed to
> > do.
> >
> > but keep yapping. by the time you get done, the pacers may set a new
> > record for wins on the season.
>
> LOL! They can't even beat the clippers, and just lost to seattle. Any
> team is capable of beating another team in the NBA, the Pacers have
> proved that much, but the FACT is that they don't have their heavy
> hitters and they will suffer...badly.

every team has ups and downs. they're still 8-5, better than many
teams with all their players.

> Regardless, you are just
> dismissing this travesty of a brawl, as a non managment issue.

yup - because that's exactly what it is, mr. bush.

> That is
> ridiculous.

no, ridiculous is you continuing to ignore how bad things were with a
perpetually underachieving team under isiah.

> When things were going bad for Isiah, you folks were
> pointing directly at him with the mantra "he is in charge" and "the
> coach is responsible for the player's actions".

when they are playing, absolutely. if the guy can't understand
matchups, diagram plays, make adequate substitutions, he's a *bad
coach*. isiah's picture is next to those words in the dictionary.

> When this stuff happens under Carlisle it is a double standard.

because expecting your players to behave like grown men is not the
coach's responsibility. if he missed a curfew, he'd be fined. coaches
can handle stuff like that. when a player goes after a fan, there's
nothing any coach can do, except discipline the guy beyond what the
nba will do, after the fact.

> Gee? I
> wonder why that is? Hmmmm. Let me sleep on that answer.

ah, yes, the classic "race card". let me tell you something - i'm a
celtics fan, and i'm much happier with doc rivers in place than jim
o'brien. i don't care one whit about a players' or coaches' race when
evaluating their ability to do their job. and i don't hear anyone in
the media - black or white - saying that carlisle should be fired over
this. only you seem to be getting up in arms about it, which probably
says far more about you and your racial perspectives than mine. maybe
you're the one who needs to do some reevaluation.
> >
> >
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> >
>
>
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 >> Stay informed about: Fire Carlisle!! 

mr. gone wrote:

> "Bush is the AntiChrist!! " <tle_mgr.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<56mdnSxGdeaUKDLcRVn-hw.DeleteThis@comcast.com>...
>
>>mr. gone wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Bush is the AntiChrist!! wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Carlisle has shown not only can he not control Artest, but that he
>>>
>>>can't
>>>
>>>
>>>>control the team as a whole. When Isiah was here, there was never a
>>>>fight and he managed to reel in Artest.
>>>
>>>
>>>as i pointed out before, but as you continue to ignore, artest was a
>>>model citizen *until* isiah got his hands on him. he *did* get in
>>>fights, he *did* get suspended numerous times, he *was* out of control
>>>under isiah. under carlisle last year, he was a far better citizen than
>>>he ever was under isiah.
>>
>>He wasn't a model citizen this year from the get go. Immediate
>>suspension by Bird, then the fight and a season suspension. Maybe
>>Isiah was doing some kind of long distance mind control?
>>
>
> or maybe bird and carlisle did the right thing by suspending him,
> something isiah probably wouldn't have done.
>
>>>
>>>>Larry Bird and Carlisle have
>>>>screwed this entire team up.
>>>
>>>
>>>yeah, they won, what, 63 games last year? they really screwed it up
>>>from that 48-win season a year previous.
>>
>>Uhm, so? What difference does it make if it doesn't produce a ring?
>>Which they didn't. In fact they were beaten by a lower seeded team and
>>didn't even make the finals. Yeah, what an accomplishment.
>
>
> 1) detroit made a trade at the deadline that made them clearly the
> better team.
>
> 2) the previous year, the pacers were swept out of the first round by
> the celtics, a clearly inferior team, meaning the pacers were poorly
> coached. but don't let the facts of isiah's far greater blunders cloud
> your thinking. i mean, you just know for a fact, like the guy you call
> the antichrist, one thing is the case (in this case, isiah's the
> better coach), even when all the facts show otherwise.
>
>>>
>>>>Now all they have are five or six players for the next two months!
>>>
>>>
>>>and yet they still keep winning. maybe because they have talent and
>>>they know how to use it, something nba gm's and coaches are supposed to
>>>do.
>>>
>>>but keep yapping. by the time you get done, the pacers may set a new
>>>record for wins on the season.
>>
>>LOL! They can't even beat the clippers, and just lost to seattle. Any
>>team is capable of beating another team in the NBA, the Pacers have
>>proved that much, but the FACT is that they don't have their heavy
>>hitters and they will suffer...badly.
>
>
> every team has ups and downs. they're still 8-5, better than many
> teams with all their players.
>
>
>>Regardless, you are just
>>dismissing this travesty of a brawl, as a non managment issue.
>
>
> yup - because that's exactly what it is, mr. bush.
>
>
>>That is
>>ridiculous.
>
>
> no, ridiculous is you continuing to ignore how bad things were with a
> perpetually underachieving team under isiah.
>
>
>>When things were going bad for Isiah, you folks were
>>pointing directly at him with the mantra "he is in charge" and "the
>>coach is responsible for the player's actions".
>
>
> when they are playing, absolutely. if the guy can't understand
> matchups, diagram plays, make adequate substitutions, he's a *bad
> coach*. isiah's picture is next to those words in the dictionary.

There's the standard.

>
>
>>When this stuff happens under Carlisle it is a double standard.
>
>
> because expecting your players to behave like grown men is not the
> coach's responsibility. if he missed a curfew, he'd be fined. coaches
> can handle stuff like that. when a player goes after a fan, there's
> nothing any coach can do, except discipline the guy beyond what the
> nba will do, after the fact.
>
>
And the Double Standard, as predicted.

>>Gee? I
>>wonder why that is? Hmmmm. Let me sleep on that answer.
>
>
> ah, yes, the classic "race card".

Heh. Thanks in advance for deflecting any "race card" accusations,
which hasn't even been brought up. Therefore, there must be some truth
for the preemptive strike eh?


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 >> Stay informed about: Fire Carlisle!! 

Bush is the AntiChrist!! wrote:
> mr. gone wrote:
>
> > "Bush is the AntiChrist!! " <tle_mgr RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<56mdnSxGdeaUKDLcRVn-hw RemoveThis @comcast.com>...
> >
> >>mr. gone wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Bush is the AntiChrist!! wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Carlisle has shown not only can he not control Artest, but that
he
> >>>
> >>>can't
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>control the team as a whole. When Isiah was here, there was
never a
> >>>>fight and he managed to reel in Artest.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>as i pointed out before, but as you continue to ignore, artest was
a
> >>>model citizen *until* isiah got his hands on him. he *did* get in
> >>>fights, he *did* get suspended numerous times, he *was* out of
control
> >>>under isiah. under carlisle last year, he was a far better citizen
than
> >>>he ever was under isiah.
> >>
> >>He wasn't a model citizen this year from the get go. Immediate
> >>suspension by Bird, then the fight and a season suspension.
Maybe
> >>Isiah was doing some kind of long distance mind control?
> >>
> >
> > or maybe bird and carlisle did the right thing by suspending him,
> > something isiah probably wouldn't have done.
> >
> >>>
> >>>>Larry Bird and Carlisle have
> >>>>screwed this entire team up.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>yeah, they won, what, 63 games last year? they really screwed it
up
> >>>from that 48-win season a year previous.
> >>
> >>Uhm, so? What difference does it make if it doesn't produce a
ring?
> >>Which they didn't. In fact they were beaten by a lower seeded team
and
> >>didn't even make the finals. Yeah, what an accomplishment.
> >
> >
> > 1) detroit made a trade at the deadline that made them clearly the
> > better team.
> >
> > 2) the previous year, the pacers were swept out of the first round
by
> > the celtics, a clearly inferior team, meaning the pacers were
poorly
> > coached. but don't let the facts of isiah's far greater blunders
cloud
> > your thinking. i mean, you just know for a fact, like the guy you
call
> > the antichrist, one thing is the case (in this case, isiah's the
> > better coach), even when all the facts show otherwise.
> >
> >>>
> >>>>Now all they have are five or six players for the next two
months!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>and yet they still keep winning. maybe because they have talent
and
> >>>they know how to use it, something nba gm's and coaches are
supposed to
> >>>do.
> >>>
> >>>but keep yapping. by the time you get done, the pacers may set a
new
> >>>record for wins on the season.
> >>
> >>LOL! They can't even beat the clippers, and just lost to seattle.
Any
> >>team is capable of beating another team in the NBA, the Pacers have

> >>proved that much, but the FACT is that they don't have their heavy
> >>hitters and they will suffer...badly.
> >
> >
> > every team has ups and downs. they're still 8-5, better than many
> > teams with all their players.
> >
> >
> >>Regardless, you are just
> >>dismissing this travesty of a brawl, as a non managment issue.
> >
> >
> > yup - because that's exactly what it is, mr. bush.
> >
> >
> >>That is
> >>ridiculous.
> >
> >
> > no, ridiculous is you continuing to ignore how bad things were with
a
> > perpetually underachieving team under isiah.
> >
> >
> >>When things were going bad for Isiah, you folks were
> >>pointing directly at him with the mantra "he is in charge" and "the

> >>coach is responsible for the player's actions".
> >
> >
> > when they are playing, absolutely. if the guy can't understand
> > matchups, diagram plays, make adequate substitutions, he's a *bad
> > coach*. isiah's picture is next to those words in the dictionary.
>
> There's the standard.
>
> >
> >
> >>When this stuff happens under Carlisle it is a double standard.
> >
> >
> > because expecting your players to behave like grown men is not the
> > coach's responsibility. if he missed a curfew, he'd be fined.
coaches
> > can handle stuff like that. when a player goes after a fan, there's
> > nothing any coach can do, except discipline the guy beyond what the
> > nba will do, after the fact.
> >
> >
> And the Double Standard, as predicted.
>
what double standard? i wouldn't demand isiah be fired for this
incident if he had been coaching when it happened. in fact, i wouldn't
view it as reflecting on his abilities as a coach in any way, shape or
form.

> >>Gee? I
> >>wonder why that is? Hmmmm. Let me sleep on that answer.
> >
> >
> > ah, yes, the classic "race card".
>
> Heh. Thanks in advance for deflecting any "race card" accusations,
> which hasn't even been brought up. Therefore, there must be some
truth
> for the preemptive strike eh?
>
what preemptive strike? you know that was *exactly* what you were
intending. being disingenous after the fact doesn't change that.

i hate racism. i hate racists. and i especially hate people who accuse
others of racism when all their other means of arguing have been
exhausted. your beliefs and notions have been shredded, so all you can
do is try to assail my character. sounds like your hero all over again.
but, like i said, if isiah had been coaching when this happened, i
wouldn't even consider it as a criteria for his being fired. and i'm
sure you wouldn't have been calling for his firing either. but
carlisle, who is clearly the better coach - you want him fired. again,
you're the one with problems, not me.
>
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 >> Stay informed about: Fire Carlisle!! 

nope, not in the least. and you were most definitely implying something
about race. if not, state what it was.
 >> Stay informed about: Fire Carlisle!! 

>Nice try at trying to snip the pertinent information so the new people

>wouldn't know what we are talking about. As stated above, I didn't
have
>any idea, why there was a double standard. That is why I said I would
>have to sleep on the reason why.

prefaced with a "gee". as in, "the answer is obvious". nice further try
at being disingenuous, but, once again, your reasoning is entirely
obvious - and your own choice of words made it that way. you're simply
turning it around on me to make it somehow look like i'm defective in
some way. and, as i've stated before - you wouldn't be calling for
thomas's head if this incident had happened. i wouldn't be either, but
i'm not calling for carlisle's either. you are. you're the one with the
obvious bias.

>Under Carlisle, the team has become a debacle in the eyes of the
world.
>We now have a losing record since the suspensions, and have given up
>nearly 100pts a game!

wow. and to to think that thomas would have surely done better, seeing
as he took a better team than carlisle inherited last year to 15 fewer
wins (no brad miller). weren't you just saying carlisle was a better
coach? i guess you don't even know what you believe.


>Even with O'neil, the team is still .500 without Artest. This has been

>proven over and over again. The team cannot win a title without
Artest.
>Carlisle has failed yet again.

when did he fail before? and how did he fail this time? artest is a
grown man and should know better. you wouldn't be calling for thomas's
head if this had happened on his watch, a fact you repeatedly fail to
address. you admit carlisle's a better coach, but wouldn't be calling
for thomas to be fired if he had been coaching when this happened.
basically, you don't know anything, but you're trying to make yourself
look good by denigrating someone else for not falling for your specious
reasoning.
 >> Stay informed about: Fire Carlisle!! 

mr. gone wrote:


>>>Nice try at trying to snip the pertinent information so the new
people

>>>wouldn't know what we are talking about. As stated above, I didn't


>> have


>>>any idea, why there was a double standard. That is why I said I
would
>>>have to sleep on the reason why.


>> prefaced with a "gee". as in, "the answer is obvious". nice further
try
>> at being disingenuous, but, once again, your reasoning is entirely
>> obvious - and your own choice of words made it that way. you're
simply
>> turning it around on me to make it somehow look like i'm defective
in
>> some way. and, as i've stated before - you wouldn't be calling for
>> thomas's head if this incident had happened. i wouldn't be either,
but
>> i'm not calling for carlisle's either. you are. you're the one with
the
>> obvious bias.

notice, no reply. obviously, you have no defense.

>>>Under Carlisle, the team has become a debacle in the eyes of the
>>> world.

maybe "you" have, through your ridiculous reasoning. the team...if they
are a debacle, it's not because of carlisle. and i don't feel they are.
the remaining guys are playing basketball as well and as hard as they
can, the sign of good coaching.

>>>We now have a losing record since the suspensions, and have given up
>>>nearly 100pts a game!

yeah, losing to sacramento and a 9-2 seattle team is *such* a
disgrace...lol.

>> wow. and to to think that thomas would have surely done better,
seeing
>> as he took a better team than carlisle inherited last year to 15
fewer
> >wins (no brad miller). weren't you just saying carlisle was a better
>> coach? i guess you don't even know what you believe.



>Brad Miller is inconsequential, he is no longer with the team.

but he was when thomas was there, and pollard barely played last year.
this is definitely not "inconsequential" in spite of your assertions.
carlisle took a team with less talent and won 15 more games with it
last year - again, the sign of a good coach, or at least a better one
than the guy you for some reason want back.

>The team
still lost to a lower seeded team and didn't even make the finals,
despite having the best record in the NBA.

as you ignored before, like you always ignore every argument that
doesn't work with your perception of things, detroit was clearly the
better team after making that trade. detroit won the championship, for
crying out loud, beating a laker "team for the ages" that came from the
supposedly wildly superior western conference. but again, you'll simply
ignore all of this when trying to make your points.

>I can't see where the
>achievement is in that? It is like Dale Earnhardt Jr. having the
>fastest and most powerful car on the track, but ultimately losing to a

>less powerful car in the final stretch.

detroit was *not* a "less powerful car". but, you'll just keep saying
it is or ignoring the real truth of the situation, like always. i mean,
all carlisle did was turn a 48-win team into a 63-win team with less
talent. i guess he's just a terrible coach.

>>>Even with O'neil, the team is still .500 without Artest. This has
been
>>>proven over and over again. The team cannot win a title without
>>> Artest.

i guess they'd have a better chance to win it without him if they had
thomas, right? lol.

>>>Carlisle has failed yet again.


>> when did he fail before?



>Uhm, where should we start? He failed three years with the pistons,

he coached there for two years. you can't even keep your facts
straight.

>in fact he was fired because the players and fans had no confidence in
him.

"players had no confidence"...lol. they won 50 games under him. how
many had they won the previous few years?

>He failed the Pacers last year, because despite our superior team,

nope, but just keep saying it over and over again like your role model,
bush. maybe if you say it enough, you can hypnotize other people into
believing it's true.

>Larry Brown still managed to get passed us and go on to win the
>Championship.

yeah, he won the championship. with a better team. against a laker
"team for the ages". you just shot yourself in the head.

>>and how did he fail this time?


>Now we have his failures this year: 1) unable to control Artest.

thomas couldn't do it either. i guess the first time artest was
suspended, thomas should have been fired, by your lojik. of course, you
would never do that.

>2) Unable to control O'neil, who up to now was pretty much docile.

like artest, he's a grown man. why should a coach be expected to
"control" a player beyond directing them in practice and having them
execute plays in a game? they aren't. only you are holding anyone to
that standard.

>3) Unable to control Jackson, who as far as I know didn't have any
problems
>before.

artest didn't have any problems before thomas started coaching him.
but, of course, that will be ignored by you yet again...

>As a result the team sucks and is getting worse with each game.

as opposed to under thomas, when they just stunk continuously with more
talent on the team than carlisle ever had to work with.

> The
>upcoming schedule doesn't look too promising.

the guys are playing as well as they can, and working hard doing it.
the hallmarks of a well-coached team.

>>artest is a
>> grown man and should know better. you wouldn't be calling for
thomas's
>> head if this had happened on his watch, a fact you repeatedly fail
to
>> address.


>This never happened on Isiah's watch, so the question is moot.

no, it is entirely salient. i'm applying the same standard for both
coaches. you aren't. again, your bias is obvious, and completely
undermines any argument you might be making. until you address this,
nothing else you say is worth noting (and is very easily shredded by
anything resembling sound reasoning).

>>you admit carlisle's a better coach, but wouldn't be calling
>> for thomas to be fired if he had been coaching when this happened.

again, no response.

>>This wasn't just Artest, it was three other players,

three? try two. man, your math is like enron's.

>>who never get into
>>trouble.

until now. artest never got into trouble until isiah got his hands on
him. but i wasn't calling for isiah to be fired because he couldn't
"control" him. neither are you, but you want carlisle to be fired for
it.

>This was also compounded by his inability to contol ARtest at
>the begining of the season,

they *suspended* him, didn't they? that *is* trying to control.

>or get pass a weaker Pistons team.

*not* weaker. *not* weaker. but, you'll just ignore it, like always. or
keep saying it over and over. either way, you're still wrong.

>It is just way too many mistakes. With Isiah, we all could understand
>that he started with a bunch of rookies and young inexperienced
players.

exactly the same team carlisle inherited, only stronger. 15 games'
improvement isn't explained by this. tinsley wasn't a rookie when
thomas coached them. croshere wasn't a rookie. reggie wasn't a rookie.
artest wasn't a rookie. brad miller wasn't a rookie. o'neal wasn't a
rookie. 15 games' improvement is not explained by one year of
experience, especially when there are already so many veterans on the
team and the talent gets worse.

>But even then he started with a 19-1 record, before injuries took
>their toll in the second half (not to mention Tinsley's mother's
death).

and artest went nuts, making the team basically implode. but you
weren't calling for isiah's head then, were you?

>No one expected a championship out of Thomas's team.

but carlisle takes a lesser team and you expect a championship. your
reasoning is incredible.

>We expect more from Carlisle.

i expect more from a person who actually follows the pacers.

>> basically, you don't know anything, but you're trying to make
yourself
>> look good by denigrating someone else for not falling for your
specious
>> reasoning.


>Heh. Good one.

and accurate. moreso now than ever.
 >> Stay informed about: Fire Carlisle!! 

Bush is the AntiChrist!! wrote:
> mr. gone wrote:
>
> >>Nice try at trying to snip the pertinent information so the new
people
> >
> >
> >>wouldn't know what we are talking about. As stated above, I didn't
> >
> > have
> >
> >>any idea, why there was a double standard. That is why I said I
would
> >>have to sleep on the reason why.
> >
> >
> > prefaced with a "gee". as in, "the answer is obvious". nice further
try
> > at being disingenuous, but, once again, your reasoning is entirely
> > obvious - and your own choice of words made it that way. you're
simply
> > turning it around on me to make it somehow look like i'm defective
in
> > some way. and, as i've stated before - you wouldn't be calling for
> > thomas's head if this incident had happened. i wouldn't be either,
but
> > i'm not calling for carlisle's either. you are. you're the one with
the
> > obvious bias.
> >

notice, no reply here. pathetic.

> >
> >>Under Carlisle, the team has become a debacle in the eyes of the
> >
> > world.
> >
> >>We now have a losing record since the suspensions, and have given
up
> >>nearly 100pts a game!
> >
> >
> > wow. and to to think that thomas would have surely done better,
seeing
> > as he took a better team than carlisle inherited last year to 15
fewer
> > wins (no brad miller). weren't you just saying carlisle was a
better
> > coach? i guess you don't even know what you believe.
>
> Brad Miller is inconsequential, he is no longer with the team. >

he was with the team under thomas, and he's a better player than
pollard. so yes, winning fifteen more games than the year before with
lesser talent is definitely not "inconsequential", in spite of your
assertions to the contrary.

> The team
> still lost to a lower seeded team and didn't even make the finals,
> despite having the best record in the NBA.

it's better than they ever did under thomas with more talent, in spite
of the fact that you still want him back. and, as i mentioned before,
but you *keep* ignoring, like everything you don't have a reasonable
answer for, detroit, after the trade that got them rasheed, was clearly
the better team. or did you forget that they also won the championship
against a laker team that was supposed to be "for the ages"? of course
you didn't forget - you simply chose to ignore it because it works
against your already nonexistent case.

> I can't see where the
> achievement is in that? It is like Dale Earnhardt Jr. having the
> fastest and most powerful car on the track, but ultimately losing to
a
> less powerful car in the final stretch.
>
detroit was not a "less powerful car". they were the better team,
though you'll never admit it even though you have no argument against
it.
> >
> >
> >
> >>Even with O'neil, the team is still .500 without Artest. This has
been
> >
> >
> >>proven over and over again. The team cannot win a title without
> >
> > Artest.
> >
> >>Carlisle has failed yet again.
> >
> >
> > when did he fail before?
>
> Uhm, where should we start? He failed three years with the pistons,
in
> fact he was fired because the players and fans had no confidence in
him.

the players, by in large, liked him. the fans? let's see, he won 50
games both years. if they don't know anything, it's their own fault.

> He failed the Pacers last year, because despite our superior team,
> Larry Brown still managed to get passed us and go on to win the
> Championship.
>
*not* superior. *not* superior. *not* superior. detroit made a trade
and won the championship. but again, you'll never acknowledge any of
this.

>
> >and how did he fail this time?
>
> Now we have his failures this year: 1) unable to control Artest.

same with thomas. you wouldn't want him fired. blatant double-standard.
why, i don't know. legitimately, since it seems unreasonable to assume
you're biased against white people.

>2) Unable to control O'neil, who up to now was pretty much docile.

oh, so did carlisle tell him to start fighting? nice try - but that
doesn't work. he, like artest, is a grown man getting paid alot of
money to do a job. and again, if it had been on thomas's watch.

> 3) Unable to control Jackson, who as far as I know didn't have any
problems before.

artest didn't have any problems before coming under thomas. so, by your
standard, thomas should have been fired the first time artest got
suspended under him. but you wouldn't fire thomas if this whole debacle
had happened under him. the irony is hilarious.

> As a result the team sucks and is getting worse with each game.

yeah, losing to sacramento and a 9-2 seattle team on the road is such a
scathing indictment.

> The
> upcoming schedule doesn't look too promising.
>
and thomas, whom you wouldn't have fired, would be so much better
equipped to handle it.

> artest is a
> > grown man and should know better. you wouldn't be calling for
thomas's
> > head if this had happened on his watch, a fact you repeatedly fail
to
> > address.
>
> This never happened on Isiah's watch, so the question is moot.
>
no, it's entirely salient. your complete disregard of this completely
undermines your argument.

> you admit carlisle's a better coach, but wouldn't be calling
> > for thomas to be fired if he had been coaching when this happened.
>
> This wasn't just Artest, it was three other players, who never get
into
> trouble. This was also compounded by his inability to contol ARtest
at
> the begining of the season, or get pass a weaker Pistons team.
>
already addressed above. you just don't get it, do you?

> It is just way too many mistakes. With Isiah, we all could
understand
> that he started with a bunch of rookies and young inexperienced
players.
> But even then he started with a 19-1 record, before injuries took
> their toll in the second half (not to mention Tinsley's mother's
death).
> No one expected a championship out of Thomas's team.
>
it was a better team than carlisle inherited. if you didn't expect a
championship out of it, but expected it from carlisle's, you obviously
don't know anything. or, thomas was a worse coach and should have been
fired if this incident happened on his watch. take your pick. either
way, you have egg on your face.

> We expect more from Carlisle.
>

i expect more from you, as a pacer fan.

> > basically, you don't know anything, but you're trying to make
yourself
> > look good by denigrating someone else for not falling for your
specious
> > reasoning.
> >
>
> Heh. Good one.
>
and accurate.

> --
> The Best in Message Board Discussions
> http://www.comicboards.org/religion
> -----------------
> Bush is re-elected, fly the flag upside down!
>
> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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 >> Stay informed about: Fire Carlisle!! 

mr. gone wrote:

> Bush is the AntiChrist!! wrote:
>
>>mr. gone wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Bush is the AntiChrist!! " <tle_mgr.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:<56mdnSxGdeaUKDLcRVn-hw.TakeThisOut@comcast.com>...
>
>>>>mr. gone wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Bush is the AntiChrist!! wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Carlisle has shown not only can he not control Artest, but that
>
> he
>
>>>>>can't
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>control the team as a whole. When Isiah was here, there was
>
> never a
>
>>>>>>fight and he managed to reel in Artest.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>as i pointed out before, but as you continue to ignore, artest was
>
> a
>
>>>>>model citizen *until* isiah got his hands on him. he *did* get in
>>>>>fights, he *did* get suspended numerous times, he *was* out of
>
> control
>
>>>>>under isiah. under carlisle last year, he was a far better citizen
>
> than
>
>>>>>he ever was under isiah.
>>>>
>>>>He wasn't a model citizen this year from the get go. Immediate
>>>>suspension by Bird, then the fight and a season suspension.
>
> Maybe
>
>>>>Isiah was doing some kind of long distance mind control?
>>>>
>>>
>>>or maybe bird and carlisle did the right thing by suspending him,
>>>something isiah probably wouldn't have done.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>Larry Bird and Carlisle have
>>>>>>screwed this entire team up.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>yeah, they won, what, 63 games last year? they really screwed it
>
> up
>
>>>>>from that 48-win season a year previous.
>>>>
>>>>Uhm, so? What difference does it make if it doesn't produce a
>
> ring?
>
>>>>Which they didn't. In fact they were beaten by a lower seeded team
>
> and
>
>>>>didn't even make the finals. Yeah, what an accomplishment.
>>>
>>>
>>>1) detroit made a trade at the deadline that made them clearly the
>>>better team.
>>>
>>>2) the previous year, the pacers were swept out of the first round
>
> by
>
>>>the celtics, a clearly inferior team, meaning the pacers were
>
> poorly
>
>>>coached. but don't let the facts of isiah's far greater blunders
>
> cloud
>
>>>your thinking. i mean, you just know for a fact, like the guy you
>
> call
>
>>>the antichrist, one thing is the case (in this case, isiah's the
>>>better coach), even when all the facts show otherwise.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>Now all they have are five or six players for the next two
>
> months!
>
>>>>>
>>>>>and yet they still keep winning. maybe because they have talent
>
> and
>
>>>>>they know how to use it, something nba gm's and coaches are
>
> supposed to
>
>>>>>do.
>>>>>
>>>>>but keep yapping. by the time you get done, the pacers may set a
>
> new
>
>>>>>record for wins on the season.
>>>>
>>>>LOL! They can't even beat the clippers, and just lost to seattle.
>
> Any
>
>>>>team is capable of beating another team in the NBA, the Pacers have
>
>
>>>>proved that much, but the FACT is that they don't have their heavy
>>>>hitters and they will suffer...badly.
>>>
>>>
>>>every team has ups and downs. they're still 8-5, better than many
>>>teams with all their players.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Regardless, you are just
>>>>dismissing this travesty of a brawl, as a non managment issue.
>>>
>>>
>>>yup - because that's exactly what it is, mr. bush.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>That is
>>>>ridiculous.
>>>
>>>
>>>no, ridiculous is you continuing to ignore how bad things were with
>
> a
>
>>>perpetually underachieving team under isiah.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>When things were going bad for Isiah, you folks were
>>>>pointing directly at him with the mantra "he is in charge" and "the
>
>
>>>>coach is responsible for the player's actions".
>>>
>>>
>>>when they are playing, absolutely. if the guy can't understand
>>>matchups, diagram plays, make adequate substitutions, he's a *bad
>>>coach*. isiah's picture is next to those words in the dictionary.
>>
>>There's the standard.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>When this stuff happens under Carlisle it is a double standard.
>>>
>>>
>>>because expecting your players to behave like grown men is not the
>>>coach's responsibility. if he missed a curfew, he'd be fined.
>
> coaches
>
>>>can handle stuff like that. when a player goes after a fan, there's
>>>nothing any coach can do, except discipline the guy beyond what the
>>>nba will do, after the fact.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>And the Double Standard, as predicted.
>>
>
> what double standard? i wouldn't demand isiah be fired for this
> incident if he had been coaching when it happened. in fact, i wouldn't
> view it as reflecting on his abilities as a coach in any way, shape or
> form.
>
>
>>>>Gee? I
>>>>wonder why that is? Hmmmm. Let me sleep on that answer.
>>>
>>>
>>>ah, yes, the classic "race card".
>>
>>Heh. Thanks in advance for deflecting any "race card" accusations,
>>which hasn't even been brought up. Therefore, there must be some
>
> truth
>
>>for the preemptive strike eh?
>>
>
> what preemptive strike? you know that was *exactly* what you were
> intending. being disingenous after the fact doesn't change that.
>
> i hate racism. i hate racists. and i especially hate people who accuse
> others of racism when all their other means of arguing have been
> exhausted. your beliefs and notions have been shredded, so all you can
> do is try to assail my character. sounds like your hero all over again.
> but, like i said, if isiah had been coaching when this happened, i
> wouldn't even consider it as a criteria for his being fired. and i'm
> sure you wouldn't have been calling for his firing either. but
> carlisle, who is clearly the better coach - you want him fired. again,
> you're the one with problems, not me.
>

Of course Carlisle is a better coach than Isiah, no one is saying
otherwise. Isiah had as much experience coaching as Bird, the
difference was Bird had the luxury of having 1) a great team 2) Carlisle
as his assistant.

I wasn't implying anything about race, you just have a guilty conscious.


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http://www.comicboards.org/religion
-----------------
Bush is re-elected, fly the flag upside down!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
*********xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
*********xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
*********xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
*********xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 >> Stay informed about: Fire Carlisle!! 

Bush is the AntiChrist!! wrote:

> mr. gone wrote:
>
>> Bush is the AntiChrist!! wrote:
>>
>>> mr. gone wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> "Bush is the AntiChrist!! " <tle_mgr.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>>
>> news:<56mdnSxGdeaUKDLcRVn-hw.DeleteThis@comcast.com>...
>>
>>>>> mr. gone wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Bush is the AntiChrist!! wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Carlisle has shown not only can he not control Artest, but that
>>
>>
>> he
>>
>>>>>> can't
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> control the team as a whole. When Isiah was here, there was
>>
>>
>> never a
>>
>>>>>>> fight and he managed to reel in Artest.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> as i pointed out before, but as you continue to ignore, artest was
>>
>>
>> a
>>
>>>>>> model citizen *until* isiah got his hands on him. he *did* get in
>>>>>> fights, he *did* get suspended numerous times, he *was* out of
>>
>>
>> control
>>
>>>>>> under isiah. under carlisle last year, he was a far better citizen
>>
>>
>> than
>>
>>>>>> he ever was under isiah.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> He wasn't a model citizen this year from the get go. Immediate
>>>>> suspension by Bird, then the fight and a season suspension.
>>
>>
>> Maybe
>>
>>>>> Isiah was doing some kind of long distance mind control?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> or maybe bird and carlisle did the right thing by suspending him,
>>>> something isiah probably wouldn't have done.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> Larry Bird and Carlisle have
>>>>>>> screwed this entire team up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> yeah, they won, what, 63 games last year? they really screwed it
>>
>>
>> up
>>
>>>>>> from that 48-win season a year previous.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Uhm, so? What difference does it make if it doesn't produce a
>>