My Heart is Broken

"Charles Beauchamp" <C.E.Beauchamp RemoveThis @NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:Df2dnYxcheYfOlHfRVn-3w@comcast.com...
> Nate to Portland. F*** you Paul Allen.

Damn Trailbrassieres.....
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rave wrote:
> "Charles Beauchamp" <C.E.Beauchamp DeleteThis @NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in message
> news:Df2dnYxcheYfOlHfRVn-3w@comcast.com...
>> Nate to Portland. F*** you Paul Allen.
>
>
> I wonder if it was about power and not money. I seem to recall him
> saying he had very little imput into the teams direction.

He will not have any power in Portland either....likely less.

Lots of nice perks though, a 15 million training facility; Blazer 1... the
757 flying lounge with satellite big screen TV and a trainers room etc...


--
Laurel T
"I wish I was young again. I'd make a fortune and the
coach couldn't yell at me." Charles Barkley
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"Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamNot_.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3j3p4lFnmuqoU1@individual.net...
> rave wrote:
> > "Charles Beauchamp" <C.E.Beauchamp.TakeThisOut@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:Df2dnYxcheYfOlHfRVn-3w@comcast.com...
> >> Nate to Portland. F*** you Paul Allen.
> >
> >
> > I wonder if it was about power and not money. I seem to recall him
> > saying he had very little imput into the teams direction.
>
> He will not have any power in Portland either....likely less.

I read someplace that to woo him, they were going to promise him input into
the direction of the team. can't remember where. iirc it was an issue
withmcmillan.

>
> Lots of nice perks though, a 15 million training facility; Blazer 1... the
> 757 flying lounge with satellite big screen TV and a trainers room etc...

:) - good luch Nate!

>
>
> --
> Laurel T
> "I wish I was young again. I'd make a fortune and the
> coach couldn't yell at me." Charles Barkley
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: My Heart is Broken 

rave wrote:
> "Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamNot_.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3j3p4lFnmuqoU1@individual.net...
>> rave wrote:
>>> "Charles Beauchamp" <C.E.Beauchamp.TakeThisOut@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in
>>> message news:Df2dnYxcheYfOlHfRVn-3w@comcast.com...
>>>> Nate to Portland. F*** you Paul Allen.
>>>
>>>
>>> I wonder if it was about power and not money. I seem to recall him
>>> saying he had very little imput into the teams direction.
>>
>> He will not have any power in Portland either....likely less.
>
> I read someplace that to woo him, they were going to promise him
> input into the direction of the team. can't remember where. iirc it
> was an issue withmcmillan.

Input is not power.

>
>>
>> Lots of nice perks though, a 15 million training facility; Blazer
>> 1... the 757 flying lounge with satellite big screen TV and a
>> trainers room etc...
>
> :) - good luch Nate!

lol
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Terraholm wrote:
> rave wrote:
>> "Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamNot_.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:3j3p4lFnmuqoU1@individual.net...
>>> rave wrote:
>>>> "Charles Beauchamp" <C.E.Beauchamp.DeleteThis@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in
>>>> message news:Df2dnYxcheYfOlHfRVn-3w@comcast.com...
>>>>> Nate to Portland. F*** you Paul Allen.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if it was about power and not money. I seem to recall him
>>>> saying he had very little imput into the teams direction.
>>>
>>> He will not have any power in Portland either....likely less.
>>
>> I read someplace that to woo him, they were going to promise him
>> input into the direction of the team. can't remember where. iirc it
>> was an issue withmcmillan.
>
> Input is not power.
>
>>
>>>
>>> Lots of nice perks though, a 15 million training facility; Blazer
>>> 1... the 757 flying lounge with satellite big screen TV and a
>>> trainers room etc...
>>
>> :) - good luch Nate!
>
> lol


I heard a rumor that he recruited young boys to visit Michael Jackson's
ranch.
--


v/r Beau
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Terraholm wrote:
> Charles Beauchamp wrote:
> > Nate to Portland. F*** you Paul Allen.
>
>
> Thank you Paul Allen... except for adding a year he did not up the reported
> 6 million offer?

I haven't heard one way or the other so far. It'll be interesting to
see what comes out in the next week or two.

> I thought the sonics would up their offer.

>From $4 million plus over four years? Nah. To be honest, I'm surprised
they went that high.

> Seems to me any blame should be with the sonics if they are not willing to
> pay his market value.

I understand that in pro sports somebody's market value is equal to the
maximum anybody is willing to pay you; but I would argue that looking
at coaching salaries across the NBA, the Sonics' offer was at least
fair and probably slightly high.

> There are other rich owners and a million and a half a
> year added would not have broke the sonics.
>
> And my guess is there is more to this than the money.

What do you think?

It seems odd to me, because during the season and even during the
draft, McMillan seemed more at ease with the makeup and attitude of the
team than ever before.

Cheers,
Chris Hafner
 >> Stay informed about: My Heart is Broken 

Chris Hafner wrote:
> Terraholm wrote:
>> Charles Beauchamp wrote:
>>> Nate to Portland. F*** you Paul Allen.
>>
>>
>> Thank you Paul Allen... except for adding a year he did not up the
>> reported 6 million offer?
>
> I haven't heard one way or the other so far. It'll be interesting to
> see what comes out in the next week or two.
>
>> I thought the sonics would up their offer.
>
>> From $4 million plus over four years? Nah. To be honest, I'm
>> surprised
> they went that high.

I heard it was 16 mil with the other two mil in incentives. So that is the
rumored twice as much, at 30 mil for 5 years.

>
>> Seems to me any blame should be with the sonics if they are not
>> willing to pay his market value.
>
> I understand that in pro sports somebody's market value is equal to
> the maximum anybody is willing to pay you; but I would argue that
> looking at coaching salaries across the NBA, the Sonics' offer was at
> least fair and probably slightly high.

4 mil is not much above average now? He was one of the 3 elite candidates
for about 8 open slots and the only one coming from a playoff team or even a
winning record.

>
>> There are other rich owners and a million and a half a
>> year added would not have broke the sonics.
>>
>> And my guess is there is more to this than the money.
>
> What do you think?

Not sure. When I wrote that I was still going on the old reports on the
difference in offers, we had it at about 6 mil and the guaranteed difference
may be 14 million or more from the current rumored amounts.


>
> It seems odd to me, because during the season and even during the
> draft, McMillan seemed more at ease with the makeup and attitude of
> the team than ever before.

If it was more than money I doubt it had anything to do with the players.

He is trading a playoff team for a kiddy team rebuilding project. Once NVE
is gone, you have Patterson DA and Theo ... the rest of the team has an
average age not old enough to buy a beer...


--
Laurel T
"Being a point guard is like being a mother.
You've got to make sure everyone's happy
and everyone gets fed."
Sebastian Telfair
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In alt.sports.basketball.nba.seattle-sonics on 7 Jul 2005 00:50:09 -0700
Chris Hafner wrote:

>Terraholm wrote:

>
>> Seems to me any blame should be with the sonics if they are not willing to
>> pay his market value.
>
>I understand that in pro sports somebody's market value is equal to the
>maximum anybody is willing to pay you;

Market value is a slippery thing. In game theory and econometrics, there is
something known as The Winner's Curse, which says that the winner of an
auction (and auction here is defined broadly to include any time a bunch of
different people competitively bid on something -- like Nate) -- the winner
of the auction *always* overpays. Why? Because the winning bid need be only
1 cent more than the second highest bid, but it was almost certainly much
higher than that.

WRT value -- and here I'm getting way off topic -- people seem to want
universal truths and Platonic essences: they want the value of something to
be $X, period. But reality is not like that. Product Y's value to me is not
the same as it's value to you. A dinner date with one of the Marvelettes
(any one, I don't care) is probably worth a lot more to me than it is to
you. What is the market value of a dinner date with one of the Marvelettes?
Kind of an average of all the resources that all interested people would be
willing to exchange in order to get that date (*not* the maximum value). But
that average does not represent its value to me -- nor to you. It is an
average, an abstraction.

Market value does not necessarily tell us anything important, like Nate's
relative value to the Sonics or the Blazers. The Sonics felt the winning bid
was too high, the Blazers felt differently. Both are correct, since they
were bidding on two different things: the Sonics were bidding on Nate's
potential value to the Sonics, the Blazers were bidding on Nate's potential
value to the Blazers.



>> There are other rich owners and a million and a half a
>> year added would not have broke the sonics.
>>
>> And my guess is there is more to this than the money.
>
>What do you think?
>
>It seems odd to me, because during the season and even during the
>draft, McMillan seemed more at ease with the makeup and attitude of the
>team than ever before.
>

Don't make me bring up marginal utility. Please. For god's sake, don't make
me do it!
--

all the best,
ed

Epitome:
Nice kid, but about as sharp as a sack of wet mice.
Email:
edkupfer. It's a gmail addy.
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Terraholm wrote:
> Chris Hafner wrote:
> > Terraholm wrote:
> >> Charles Beauchamp wrote:
> >>> Nate to Portland. F*** you Paul Allen.
> >>
> >>
> >> Thank you Paul Allen... except for adding a year he did not up the
> >> reported 6 million offer?
> >
> > I haven't heard one way or the other so far. It'll be interesting to
> > see what comes out in the next week or two.
> >
> >> I thought the sonics would up their offer.
> >
> >> From $4 million plus over four years? Nah. To be honest, I'm
> >> surprised
> > they went that high.
>
> I heard it was 16 mil with the other two mil in incentives. So that is the
> rumored twice as much, at 30 mil for 5 years.

Some reports now have Portland's offer at $35 million over five years -
which would have been shocked had the Sonics matched.

> >> Seems to me any blame should be with the sonics if they are not
> >> willing to pay his market value.
> >
> > I understand that in pro sports somebody's market value is equal to
> > the maximum anybody is willing to pay you; but I would argue that
> > looking at coaching salaries across the NBA, the Sonics' offer was at
> > least fair and probably slightly high.
>
> 4 mil is not much above average now? He was one of the 3 elite candidates
> for about 8 open slots and the only one coming from a playoff team or even a
> winning record.

No doubt - and given those facts, it's not surprising given that that
there would be a bidding war.

But in just a clear-eyed look at coaches' salaries, $16-$18 million
over four years puts Nate in pretty elite company - especially
considering that he's had three decent years, a really poor year, and
one extremely good season.

The Blazers offered more, and that's fine - but the Sonics weren't
offering chump change.

> >> There are other rich owners and a million and a half a
> >> year added would not have broke the sonics.
> >>
> >> And my guess is there is more to this than the money.
> >
> > What do you think?
>
> Not sure. When I wrote that I was still going on the old reports on the
> difference in offers, we had it at about 6 mil and the guaranteed difference
> may be 14 million or more from the current rumored amounts.

If you go by the maximum reported amount of $35 million (which could be
wrong) that'd be $16-$19 million difference in total.

> > It seems odd to me, because during the season and even during the
> > draft, McMillan seemed more at ease with the makeup and attitude of
> > the team than ever before.
>
> If it was more than money I doubt it had anything to do with the players.

Yup. I guess I could see some grudge against the organization, but it
sure wasn't obvious during the year - and all the posited reasons sound
very ... curious.

> He is trading a playoff team for a kiddy team rebuilding project. Once NVE
> is gone, you have Patterson DA and Theo ... the rest of the team has an
> average age not old enough to buy a beer...

This is what I'm saying. For a guy who wants to win immediately and has
little patience for rebuilding projects, it seems odd to jump from a
team that had just turned the corner into contention back into a
situation in which he will be trying to put together the pieces for
something good down the road.

Cheers,
Chris Hafner
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igor eduardo küpfer wrote:
> In alt.sports.basketball.nba.seattle-sonics on 7 Jul 2005 00:50:09 -0700
> Chris Hafner wrote:
>
> >Terraholm wrote:
>
> >
> >> Seems to me any blame should be with the sonics if they are not willing to
> >> pay his market value.
> >
> >I understand that in pro sports somebody's market value is equal to the
> >maximum anybody is willing to pay you;
>
> Market value is a slippery thing. In game theory and econometrics, there is
> something known as The Winner's Curse, which says that the winner of an
> auction (and auction here is defined broadly to include any time a bunch of
> different people competitively bid on something -- like Nate) -- the winner
> of the auction *always* overpays. Why? Because the winning bid need be only
> 1 cent more than the second highest bid, but it was almost certainly much
> higher than that.

Yup. Which, to apply this to another arena, is why free agency is
rarely a cost-effective way to acquire talent - especially top veteran
talent.

> WRT value -- and here I'm getting way off topic -- people seem to want
> universal truths and Platonic essences: they want the value of something to
> be $X, period. But reality is not like that. Product Y's value to me is not
> the same as it's value to you. A dinner date with one of the Marvelettes
> (any one, I don't care) is probably worth a lot more to me than it is to
> you. What is the market value of a dinner date with one of the Marvelettes?
> Kind of an average of all the resources that all interested people would be
> willing to exchange in order to get that date (*not* the maximum value). But
> that average does not represent its value to me -- nor to you. It is an
> average, an abstraction.
>
> Market value does not necessarily tell us anything important, like Nate's
> relative value to the Sonics or the Blazers. The Sonics felt the winning bid
> was too high, the Blazers felt differently. Both are correct, since they
> were bidding on two different things: the Sonics were bidding on Nate's
> potential value to the Sonics, the Blazers were bidding on Nate's potential
> value to the Blazers.

It's a good point.

> >> There are other rich owners and a million and a half a
> >> year added would not have broke the sonics.
> >>
> >> And my guess is there is more to this than the money.
> >
> >What do you think?
> >
> >It seems odd to me, because during the season and even during the
> >draft, McMillan seemed more at ease with the makeup and attitude of the
> >team than ever before.
> >
>
> Don't make me bring up marginal utility. Please. For god's sake, don't make
> me do it!

Ed - could you bring up marginal utility?

Cheers,
Chris Hafner
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"Charles Beauchamp" <C.E.Beauchamp.DeleteThis@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:Df2dnYxcheYfOlHfRVn-3w@comcast.com...
> Nate to Portland. F*** you Paul Allen.
>
> --
>
>
> v/r Beau
Ahh get ovait. McMillian apparently felt he was outta Seattle a while ago. I
am angry that he strung them along trying to find a reason to stay. Good
riddance, and welcome to Portland where his lack of actualy coaching ability
will be exposed.
KjH
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In article <i50qc1ls5acqsjdrpmtouhsbtlo2ql5p4r DeleteThis @4ax.com>, igor eduardo
küpfer <edkupfer DeleteThis @webtv.com.> wrote:

.....
>
> Market value does not necessarily tell us anything important, like Nate's
> relative value to the Sonics or the Blazers. The Sonics felt the winning bid
> was too high, the Blazers felt differently. Both are correct, since they
> were bidding on two different things: the Sonics were bidding on Nate's
> potential value to the Sonics, the Blazers were bidding on Nate's potential
> value to the Blazers.

`zactly.

.....

>
> Don't make me bring up marginal utility. Please. For god's sake, don't
> make me do it!

Nah, we'll just throw you into that briar patch instead, Brer Igor.
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