Hey Blazers Fans What Do You Think About These Trade Rumors

"Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:100becre81kraaf@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "toad" <papatoad.RemoveThis@mrstoad.com> wrote in message
> news:Rb7Nb.9488$4l3.6419@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
> >
>
> > > The jamison/finley for "sheed/Bonzi was reported as a done deal, it
has
> > been
> > > run up the flagpole about once a week since that 'Sheed is rumored to
> the
> > > mavs.
> > >
> > > I see him as a FA this summer....
> >
> > would that be the plan if we want to open up some cap space?
>
> Most likely way to get cap space would be to let 'sheed walk plus wait
> another year for more ending contracts. Even if they let him walk, they
will
> not be under the cap this summer.
> Another way, as was pointed out earlier by someone else... Bribe
Charlotte
> to take Damon in the expansion draft with cash and a first round pick plus
> waive their FA rights on 'Sheed and the mid-level.
> That would clear about 1 max contract for a FA.


okay, lemme ask you something. What's the point in being under the cap?
Isn't virtually every team in the NBA over the cap? It doesn't seem to
handicap teams from making trades and signing players even if they're over
the cap.

I suppose once you're over the cap, we start talking luxury tax and all
that, so essentially it's just more expensive to have a payroll that's over
the cap eh?

which is all the more reason to be thankful we have Paul Allen as our owner.
 >> Stay informed about: Hey Blazers Fans What Do You Think About These Trade Rumors 

"toad" <papatoad.RemoveThis@mrstoad.com> wrote in message
news:qalNb.13977$4l3.12056@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
>
>
> "Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:100becre81kraaf@corp.supernews.com...

> > Most likely way to get cap space would be to let 'sheed walk plus wait
> > another year for more ending contracts. Even if they let him walk, they
> will
> > not be under the cap this summer.
> > Another way, as was pointed out earlier by someone else... Bribe
> Charlotte
> > to take Damon in the expansion draft with cash and a first round pick
plus
> > waive their FA rights on 'Sheed and the mid-level.
> > That would clear about 1 max contract for a FA.
>
>
> okay, lemme ask you something. What's the point in being under the cap?

The cap is a line where the trade rules change.


> Isn't virtually every team in the NBA over the cap? It doesn't seem to
> handicap teams from making trades and signing players even if they're over
> the cap.

Being under the cap allows for signing FAs whose market value is more than
the exceptions. Those teams are attractive to FAs because they can sign
without having to deal with their old team for a sign and trade.
When making trades it means they do not have to give up as much as they get
and that makes trades much easier. If a team is 5 million under the cap they
can trade a 5 million player for over 10 million in salary.

Where Portland wants Terry he is a base year compensation contract. That
means his trade value is 50% for his team but the team getting him counts as
full. Makes matching salaries very difficult if both teams are over the cap.

>
> I suppose once you're over the cap, we start talking luxury tax and all
> that, so essentially it's just more expensive to have a payroll that's
over
> the cap eh?

The tax line/escrow limit is higher than the cap line. Teams under the tax
line not only do not pay tax, they receive those revenues from the teams
that do so. Sterling for example made about 10 million extra profit last
year from the Clippers being under the tax line. Money that partly came from
the 50 million dollar check for the tax from the Blazers that Patterson
wrote last summer.
More complicated than this for details..... but for general sample say team
"A" was at about 62 million last year, that is about 9 million over the tax
limit. They had a player making 9 million they tried to trade for an ending
contract but failed so they were not able to drop that salary last year.
That player above the tax limit last season cost team 'A" his 9 million
salary, the amount of his salary again in tax, and several million in tax
back from other teams. So that 9 million player cost the owner about 26
million.

See Larry's page for more accurate numbers....=)

However it looks like the payrolls will drop so that this summer the GMs
will not have to be so concerned about the tax next year. Also the tax
structure is likely to change as they negotiate the new CBA.

>
> which is all the more reason to be thankful we have Paul Allen as our
owner.

He has considered the Blazers more of a hobby than a business I think, but
they need to get the cap under control for basketball reasons too.


--
Laurel T
"I hate to do it, but I have to give Smitty
some credit for his defense.
Steve did a nice job of yelling for help every time Cliff
got the ball." DRob on guarding Uncle Cliffy
 >> Stay informed about: Hey Blazers Fans What Do You Think About These Trade Rumors 

"toad" <papatoad.RemoveThis@mrstoad.com> wrote in message news:<qalNb.13977$4l3.12056@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>...
>
> okay, lemme ask you something. What's the point in being under the cap?
> Isn't virtually every team in the NBA over the cap? It doesn't seem to
> handicap teams from making trades and signing players even if they're over
> the cap.

It affects your ability to sign free agents. It can also facilitate
certain trades since the team under the cap can take on more salary
than they give out.

> I suppose once you're over the cap, we start talking luxury tax and all
> that, so essentially it's just more expensive to have a payroll that's over
> the cap eh?

The cap and the luxury tax threshold are two different numbers.
 >> Stay informed about: Hey Blazers Fans What Do You Think About These Trade Rumors 

"Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:100bs1q89svsk4a@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "toad" <papatoad.TakeThisOut@mrstoad.com> wrote in message
> news:s4lNb.13954$4l3.13408@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
> >
> > "Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:100banme38p39aa@corp.supernews.com...
>
> > > Might try thinking about what I am saying instead of jumping to
> > conclusions
> > > from half a sentence...=)
> >
> >
> > seems to me you do a good job of diluting my overall point by shredding
my
> > paragraghs into individual sentences and commented on the validity of
> each.
>
> When you reach the overall point with incorrect data or false
> assumptions...=)
>
>
> > Which is also to say, Jamison could do better in portland than he is in
> > dallas (statistically speaking) and he may put up better numbers than
> Sheed
> > is now. I can't remember the last time Sheed has played to his ability
...
>
> Jan 2nd.

lol. i didn't just mean a specific date. lol. ur funny. I mean over a
prolonged period of time. So from 7:34 pm on Jan 2 until 9:52 that same
evening.... if that's considered prolonged.
 >> Stay informed about: Hey Blazers Fans What Do You Think About These Trade Rumors 

"toad" <papatoad DeleteThis @mrstoad.com> wrote in message
news:AQwNb.16581$4P6.12803@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>
> "Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:100bs1q89svsk4a@corp.supernews.com...

> > > is now. I can't remember the last time Sheed has played to his
ability
> ..
> >
> > Jan 2nd.
>
> lol. i didn't just mean a specific date. lol. ur funny. I mean over a
> prolonged period of time. So from 7:34 pm on Jan 2 until 9:52 that same
> evening.... if that's considered prolonged.


Ed who keeps the stats on consistency pointed out that all players are
'wildly inconsistent"


--
Laurel T
When rats leave a sinking ship,
where exactly do they think they're going?"
- Douglas Gauck
 >> Stay informed about: Hey Blazers Fans What Do You Think About These Trade Rumors 

"Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:100bs1udr6tv151@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "toad" <papatoad RemoveThis @mrstoad.com> wrote in message
> news:V7lNb.13968$4l3.8072@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
> >
>
> > I like SAR far better than Terry. You guys think Damon's a shoot first
PG
> > with a ballhog type mentality? Wait till you see Terry on an extended
> > basis. SAR has the ability to replace Sheed without Portland really
> missing
> > a beat. If you can say we have a beat. Terry only adds confusion to
our
> > chemistry and only makes sense if we plan on parting with Damon.
>
> Since Damon is playing mostly at SG at the offensive end perhaps Cheeks
> would just bench him again. Or use Terry off the bench.
>
> > Makes much
> > more sense if Sheed is going that we'd get SAR or if we're getting Terry
> > instead, then maybe Damon's going.
>
> I thought you wanted to free up the 3 spot for Woods? =)
>

I want to, but it depends on the trade. If we get a guy like Iggy with no
proven SF, or Theo along with someone like Terry, hell yea, go with Woods.
We won't have much else and I want to see what the future holds, but to get
a competent replacement like SAR, well, Woods will have to wait. Or we
have a frontcourt of zach, sar, and woods, but that don't make any more
sense than going with zach, sheed, and woods now.
 >> Stay informed about: Hey Blazers Fans What Do You Think About These Trade Rumors 

"Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:100bv3vbkvh4u90@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "toad" <papatoad.TakeThisOut@mrstoad.com> wrote in message
> news:qalNb.13977$4l3.12056@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
> >
> >
> > "Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:100becre81kraaf@corp.supernews.com...
>
> > > Most likely way to get cap space would be to let 'sheed walk plus wait
> > > another year for more ending contracts. Even if they let him walk,
they
> > will
> > > not be under the cap this summer.
> > > Another way, as was pointed out earlier by someone else... Bribe
> > Charlotte
> > > to take Damon in the expansion draft with cash and a first round pick
> plus
> > > waive their FA rights on 'Sheed and the mid-level.
> > > That would clear about 1 max contract for a FA.
> >
> >
> > okay, lemme ask you something. What's the point in being under the cap?
>
> The cap is a line where the trade rules change.
>
>
> > Isn't virtually every team in the NBA over the cap? It doesn't seem to
> > handicap teams from making trades and signing players even if they're
over
> > the cap.
>
> Being under the cap allows for signing FAs whose market value is more than
> the exceptions. Those teams are attractive to FAs because they can sign
> without having to deal with their old team for a sign and trade.
> When making trades it means they do not have to give up as much as they
get
> and that makes trades much easier. If a team is 5 million under the cap
they
> can trade a 5 million player for over 10 million in salary.
>
> Where Portland wants Terry he is a base year compensation contract. That
> means his trade value is 50% for his team but the team getting him counts
as
> full. Makes matching salaries very difficult if both teams are over the
cap.


hold on, let me grab my french travelers translation book

be back in a few




> > I suppose once you're over the cap, we start talking luxury tax and all
> > that, so essentially it's just more expensive to have a payroll that's
> over
> > the cap eh?
>
> The tax line/escrow limit is higher than the cap line. Teams under the tax
> line not only do not pay tax, they receive those revenues from the teams
> that do so. Sterling for example made about 10 million extra profit last
> year from the Clippers being under the tax line. Money that partly came
from
> the 50 million dollar check for the tax from the Blazers that Patterson
> wrote last summer.
> More complicated than this for details..... but for general sample say
team
> "A" was at about 62 million last year, that is about 9 million over the
tax
> limit. They had a player making 9 million they tried to trade for an
ending
> contract but failed so they were not able to drop that salary last year.
> That player above the tax limit last season cost team 'A" his 9 million
> salary, the amount of his salary again in tax, and several million in tax
> back from other teams. So that 9 million player cost the owner about 26
> million.
>
> See Larry's page for more accurate numbers....=)
>
> However it looks like the payrolls will drop so that this summer the GMs
> will not have to be so concerned about the tax next year. Also the tax
> structure is likely to change as they negotiate the new CBA.
>
> >
> > which is all the more reason to be thankful we have Paul Allen as our
> owner.
>
> He has considered the Blazers more of a hobby than a business I think, but
> they need to get the cap under control for basketball reasons too.
>
>
> --
> Laurel T
> "I hate to do it, but I have to give Smitty
> some credit for his defense.
> Steve did a nice job of yelling for help every time Cliff
> got the ball." DRob on guarding Uncle Cliffy
>
 >> Stay informed about: Hey Blazers Fans What Do You Think About These Trade Rumors 

"PDX Blazers" <pdx_blazers.TakeThisOut@sacbeemail.com> wrote in message
news:a5b8ff4f.0401142351.3787c61c@posting.google.com...
> "toad" <papatoad.TakeThisOut@mrstoad.com> wrote in message
news:<qalNb.13977$4l3.12056@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>...
> >
> > okay, lemme ask you something. What's the point in being under the cap?
> > Isn't virtually every team in the NBA over the cap? It doesn't seem to
> > handicap teams from making trades and signing players even if they're
over
> > the cap.
>
> It affects your ability to sign free agents. It can also facilitate
> certain trades since the team under the cap can take on more salary
> than they give out.
>
> > I suppose once you're over the cap, we start talking luxury tax and all
> > that, so essentially it's just more expensive to have a payroll that's
over
> > the cap eh?
>
> The cap and the luxury tax threshold are two different numbers.

yea, but doesn't being over the cap mean a larger luxury tax? I thought the
luxury tax all stemmed from the larry bird rule and going over the cap.
thus the tax charges teams over the cap.

am I wrong bout that general assumption?
 >> Stay informed about: Hey Blazers Fans What Do You Think About These Trade Rumors 

"toad" <papatoad.TakeThisOut@mrstoad.com> wrote in message
news:xWwNb.16587$4P6.14373@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>
> "PDX Blazers" <pdx_blazers.TakeThisOut@sacbeemail.com> wrote in message
> news:a5b8ff4f.0401142351.3787c61c@posting.google.com...
> > "toad" <papatoad.TakeThisOut@mrstoad.com> wrote in message
> news:<qalNb.13977$4l3.12056@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>...
> > >
> > > okay, lemme ask you something. What's the point in being under the
cap?
> > > Isn't virtually every team in the NBA over the cap? It doesn't seem
to
> > > handicap teams from making trades and signing players even if they're
> over
> > > the cap.
> >
> > It affects your ability to sign free agents. It can also facilitate
> > certain trades since the team under the cap can take on more salary
> > than they give out.
> >
> > > I suppose once you're over the cap, we start talking luxury tax and
all
> > > that, so essentially it's just more expensive to have a payroll that's
> over
> > > the cap eh?
> >
> > The cap and the luxury tax threshold are two different numbers.
>
> yea, but doesn't being over the cap mean a larger luxury tax?

over 44 million is over the cap, where the trade rules change. Over the
escrow limit of about 57 milllion this year teams pay the tax, $1 for every
dollar over (if the tax kicks in) Teams under the tax line get a payday and
teams a little over the tax line get more back than they pay in..

> I thought the
> luxury tax all stemmed from the larry bird rule and going over the cap.

In the last CBA they addressed the contract sizes with max amounts for
signings and extensions. Things like the Bulls giving MJ a 1 year contract
for 30 million is no longer allowed even under Bird rights.

> thus the tax charges teams over the cap.
>
> am I wrong bout that general assumption?

The tax was about getting the percentage of revenue paid to the players
reduced. The season before the lockout something like 22 teams lost money.
The tax is triggered at a certain percentage of the NBAs revenue called BRI
(Basketball related income) being paid out in players salary.
Then teams over the escrow limit/tax threshold have to pay a penalty and
teams under it benefit. It was designed to add a little harder cap to the
soft one to stop the wild escalation of contracts .


--
Laurel T
"In my prime I could have handled
Michael Jordan. Of course,
he would be only 12 years old."
Jerry Sloan
 >> Stay informed about: Hey Blazers Fans What Do You Think About These Trade Rumors 

"Zeb Quinn" <nastygram DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2fb0d153.0401142229.1292c184@posting.google.com...
> "Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<1009q2853gbkq1e DeleteThis @corp.supernews.com>...
>
> > I see him as a FA this summer....
>
> Scott Lynn on KEX said this morning that his sources tell him that the
> deal with Dallas is all but done, and that's the **real** reason
> Wallace has sat out three straight games, lest he get injured and ruin
> the deal. Lynn mentioned Antawn Jamison ....


this was the speculation by the bulls broadcasters during pregame of the
bulls/blazers game as well. They didn't speculate on who the trade was with
or who was involved though, so if (as you say below) the deal with the Mavs
may have fallen through, there's probably something else.

anyways, that's why I said a deal may be announced soon. hasn't been as
soon as I thought though.

maybe after I get some sleep, I'll wakeup to some headlines.


> But the Mavs later today denied a deal involving Antawn Jamison. But
> their denial didn't include a denial of an overall deal in the making.
> So what does that mean? It means obviously that there's a deal
> cooking, but the deal doesn't involve Antawn Jamison.
>
> Doesn't look like FA for Rasheed this summer, and mebee what's taking
> so long to get the deal done is getting Rasheed sewn up with a new
> contract, etc.
>
> I say he's gone.
 >> Stay informed about: Hey Blazers Fans What Do You Think About These Trade Rumors 

"Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:100cehqco8c2la8@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Zeb Quinn" <nastygram RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:2fb0d153.0401142229.1292c184@posting.google.com...
> > "Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:<1009q2853gbkq1e RemoveThis @corp.supernews.com>...
> >
> > > I see him as a FA this summer....
> >
> > Scott Lynn on KEX said this morning that his sources tell him that the
> > deal with Dallas is all but done, and that's the **real** reason
> > Wallace has sat out three straight games, lest he get injured and ruin
> > the deal.
>
> I think that is bogus. Mike Rice said after the Minny game 'Sheed could
> hardly walk and was getting treatment in the lockerroom. I was wondering
> last night, since he was laying on the floor flat a lot, if his back is
> bothering him again too.

but someone else said he appeared to be jumping up on the sidelines like a
cheerleader without wincing.



> > Lynn mentioned Antawn Jamison ....
> >
> > But the Mavs later today denied a deal involving Antawn Jamison. But
> > their denial didn't include a denial of an overall deal in the making.
> > So what does that mean? It means obviously that there's a deal
> > cooking, but the deal doesn't involve Antawn Jamison.
> Cuban today:
>
> "If they make us an offer we can't refuse, then OK," .


Like Don Corleone? put a gun to his head? cut off a horse's head and
stick it in his bed?
 >> Stay informed about: Hey Blazers Fans What Do You Think About These Trade Rumors 

"toad" <papatoad DeleteThis @mrstoad.com> wrote in message
news:0%wNb.16592$4P6.12780@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>

> > last night, since he was laying on the floor flat a lot, if his back is
> > bothering him again too.
>
> but someone else said he appeared to be jumping up on the sidelines like a
> cheerleader without wincing.

Waving a towel on the sideline does not equal playing on it. And it was a
gametime decission if he would play. That does not mean his ankle did not
hurt a lot when the injury was fresh, surely you have sprained an ankle and
know how that goes even when it is a mild sprain.


> > "If they make us an offer we can't refuse, then OK," .
>
>
> Like Don Corleone? put a gun to his head? cut off a horse's head and
> stick it in his bed?

'Sheed and Zach for Jamison and Abdul-Wahad



--
Laurel T
The invention of basketball was not an
accident. It was developed to meet a
need. Those boys simply would not play
"Drop the Handkerchief"
James Naismith
 >> Stay informed about: Hey Blazers Fans What Do You Think About These Trade Rumors 

"toad" <papatoad.DeleteThis@mrstoad.com> wrote in message
news:IyFNb.18277$4P6.1154@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...

> Blazers never winning a championship again is more accurate
> than to say all players are wildly inconsistent. There are some players
> around the NBA who have some off nights, but for the most part, are very
> consistent.

Not to a mathematician...
 >> Stay informed about: Hey Blazers Fans What Do You Think About These Trade Rumors