Hey Blazers Fans What Do You Think About These Trade Rumors

"Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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>
> "toad" <papatoad.DeleteThis@mrstoad.com> wrote in message
> news:AQwNb.16581$4P6.12803@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> >
> > "Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:100bs1q89svsk4a@corp.supernews.com...
>
> > > > is now. I can't remember the last time Sheed has played to his
> ability
> > ..
> > >
> > > Jan 2nd.
> >
> > lol. i didn't just mean a specific date. lol. ur funny. I mean over
a
> > prolonged period of time. So from 7:34 pm on Jan 2 until 9:52 that
same
> > evening.... if that's considered prolonged.
>
>
> Ed who keeps the stats on consistency pointed out that all players are
> 'wildly inconsistent"

In my lifetime, I've learned that it's not appropriate to use the words
always or never b/c that implies a lifetime and nothing truly appears to be
that static. Blazers never winning a championship again is more accurate
than to say all players are wildly inconsistent. There are some players
around the NBA who have some off nights, but for the most part, are very
consistent. some guys go through slumps and it's true *most* are wildly
inconsistent, but that's not true for *all*
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"Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
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>
> "toad" <papatoad DeleteThis @mrstoad.com> wrote in message
> news:xWwNb.16587$4P6.14373@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> >
> > "PDX Blazers" <pdx_blazers DeleteThis @sacbeemail.com> wrote in message
> > news:a5b8ff4f.0401142351.3787c61c@posting.google.com...
> > > "toad" <papatoad DeleteThis @mrstoad.com> wrote in message
> > news:<qalNb.13977$4l3.12056@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>...
> > > >
> > > > okay, lemme ask you something. What's the point in being under the
> cap?
> > > > Isn't virtually every team in the NBA over the cap? It doesn't seem
> to
> > > > handicap teams from making trades and signing players even if
they're
> > over
> > > > the cap.
> > >
> > > It affects your ability to sign free agents. It can also facilitate
> > > certain trades since the team under the cap can take on more salary
> > > than they give out.
> > >
> > > > I suppose once you're over the cap, we start talking luxury tax and
> all
> > > > that, so essentially it's just more expensive to have a payroll
that's
> > over
> > > > the cap eh?
> > >
> > > The cap and the luxury tax threshold are two different numbers.
> >
> > yea, but doesn't being over the cap mean a larger luxury tax?
>
> over 44 million is over the cap, where the trade rules change. Over the
> escrow limit of about 57 milllion this year teams pay the tax, $1 for
every
> dollar over (if the tax kicks in)





if it kicks in? so the luxury tax isn't actually in place yet?









Teams under the tax line get a payday and
> teams a little over the tax line get more back than they pay in..
>
> > I thought the
> > luxury tax all stemmed from the larry bird rule and going over the cap.
>
> In the last CBA they addressed the contract sizes with max amounts for
> signings and extensions. Things like the Bulls giving MJ a 1 year contract
> for 30 million is no longer allowed even under Bird rights.
>
> > thus the tax charges teams over the cap.
> >
> > am I wrong bout that general assumption?
>
> The tax was about getting the percentage of revenue paid to the players
> reduced. The season before the lockout something like 22 teams lost money.
> The tax is triggered at a certain percentage of the NBAs revenue called
BRI
> (Basketball related income) being paid out in players salary.
> Then teams over the escrow limit/tax threshold have to pay a penalty and
> teams under it benefit. It was designed to add a little harder cap to the
> soft one to stop the wild escalation of contracts .
>
>
> --
> Laurel T
> "In my prime I could have handled
> Michael Jordan. Of course,
> he would be only 12 years old."
> Jerry Sloan
>
>
>
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"Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
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>
> "toad" <papatoad RemoveThis @mrstoad.com> wrote in message
> news:0%wNb.16592$4P6.12780@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> >
>
> > > last night, since he was laying on the floor flat a lot, if his back
is
> > > bothering him again too.
> >
> > but someone else said he appeared to be jumping up on the sidelines like
a
> > cheerleader without wincing.
>
> Waving a towel on the sideline does not equal playing on it. And it was a
> gametime decission if he would play. That does not mean his ankle did not
> hurt a lot when the injury was fresh, surely you have sprained an ankle
and
> know how that goes even when it is a mild sprain.


all I'm saying is, I don't discount the rumors. I don't recall when he got
hurt, I don't recall there being much reported about it or the severity, but
now all the sudden he's out of the lineup and missed, what, 3 games? I
hadn't heard it's that serious, so yea, maybe they know something we
don't... maybe Wallace don't wanna play for a team he knows he's not going
to be a part of?

we'll see if he's traded soon or gets back in the lineup.



> > > "If they make us an offer we can't refuse, then OK," .
> >
> >
> > Like Don Corleone? put a gun to his head? cut off a horse's head and
> > stick it in his bed?
>
> 'Sheed and Zach for Jamison and Abdul-Wahad

lol. spare me
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"Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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> > now all the sudden he's out of the lineup and missed, what, 3 games? I
> > hadn't heard it's that serious, so yea, maybe they know something we
> > don't...


"People say he isn't playing because he is involved in a trade, but I know
he is hurt," McInnis said. "I have seen it. I'm his friend, and I have seen
the ankle. He is hurt."


>maybe Wallace don't wanna play for a team he knows he's not going
> > to be a part of?
>
> He has no choice. You really think the wins are not important? The whole
> team is being shopped, perhaps they should not play any of them.
> It is just too stupid....
>


lol...now Quick says he is refusing to play until he gets a promised
extension, that 'sheed told Cheeks that. They would just suspend his ass if
he said that. He might fake the injury, but tell management he was
withholding service and he would have no one cutting him any checks....


--
Laurel T
"Quite honestly we have had players on our teams before
that make Bonzi Wells look like Mary Poppins."
Hubie Brown
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On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 17:17:21 -0800, "Terraholm"
<terraholm_SpamGoAway.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in
<100eerpb5d6nha3.DeleteThis@corp.supernews.com>:

>
>"toad" <papatoad.DeleteThis@mrstoad.com> wrote in message
>news:IyFNb.18277$4P6.1154@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>
>> Blazers never winning a championship again is more accurate
>> than to say all players are wildly inconsistent. There are some players
>> around the NBA who have some off nights, but for the most part, are very
>> consistent.
>
>Not to a mathematician...


Easy now. Not only am I not a mathematician, but I never even finished my
grade 12 math classes. I am prone to mistakes, which is why I usually post my
methods, in case anyone catches an obvious error....

That said, it's true that I've used many different statistical methods to find
"consistency" within player performances. The first thing that struck me was
how hard it was to define the term. The second thing was how player
consistency disappeared as soon as I started applying statistical analysis.
I've found that consistency is like a face in the clouds: as soon as you look
closely, the pattern disappears.

I know it's counterintuitive, since we've all been led to believe that some
players are more consistent than others through media analysts -- player A has
a streak of 28 double-doubles, player B has 15 or more points in every game
this season, etc. But it's not really true -- or at least, consistency does
not occur all that regularly. These analysts are cherry-picking data to
confirm their intuitions. What happened to player A before his 28
double-doubles? Was he just as consistent? Obviously not, or they would have
included those games into his "streak".

(Whenever you hear a stat like "he's on a 12 for 12 streak" you know that he
missed at least the two shots before, or they would have said "he's on a 13-14
streak". Basketball is full of what are known as "moving endpoints" --
cherry-picking the stats to make them look better than they are. After all,
why are the last 12 shots more important than the last 14? They aren't.
Whenever you hear a stat that has a funny-sounding endpoint, or denominator,
like 12 or 57 or 7, ask your self why they chose that particular number, and
what would the stat look like if they included the 10 previous shots. Answer:
it would look worse, but it would convey more actual information.)

Anyway, if you (toad) wants, I will perform an analysis on any set of players
you choose from the last 13 seasons. Select any players you believe to be
consistent, or have heard described as consistent -- hell, any players you'd
like to see the stats for. Tell me what you think would define consistency --
points, fg%, double-doubles, rebounds, anything at all. Let me know if you (or
anyone else, for that matter) are interested in seeing such an analysis --
it's not a challenge, just an offer to show how pattern can be seen in any
large set of data.

--

--------------------------------------------------------------
| best, | You're doing a lot of choppin' |
| ed | but no chips are flyin.' |
--------------------------------------------------------------
Watch the spam trap -- the domain is rogers
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"igor eduardo küpfer" <strudel DeleteThis @example.com> wrote in message
news:h5fe00t7a6o5bl045uj3oaksrbhac8jpe5@4ax.com...


> points, fg%, double-doubles, rebounds, anything at all. Let me know if you
(or
> anyone else, for that matter) are interested in seeing such an analysis --
> it's not a challenge, just an offer to show how pattern can be seen in any
> large set of data.
>


Seems to me it is a lot easier just to use the averages....=)


--
Laurel T
Wallace: "They already know what I'm going to say.
It's already etched in their reporters' manual."
Cheeks: "What? 'Just ballin?' "
Wallace: "No . . . Good game. Both teams played hard."
 >> Stay informed about: Hey Blazers Fans What Do You Think About These Trade Rumors 

"igor eduardo küpfer" <strudel.RemoveThis@example.com> wrote in message
news:h5fe00t7a6o5bl045uj3oaksrbhac8jpe5@4ax.com...

> >
> >Not to a mathematician...
>
>
> Easy now. Not only am I not a mathematician,

If you are going to ruin great comebacks...we may have to reevaluate our
relationship... =P


--
Laurel T

"Heaven has appointed me to rule all the
nations, for hitherto there has been no order
upon the steppes."
-Chingis Khan
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"toad" <papatoad DeleteThis @mrstoad.com> wrote in message
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>
> "Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:100eep33fds9bf7@corp.supernews.com...

> > He has no choice. You really think the wins are not important? The whole
> > team is being shopped, perhaps they should not play any of them.
> > It is just too stupid....
>
>
> stupid to you. If Sheed knows he's being traded, if he knows they just
have
> to dot the i's and cross the t's, he don't care whether or not we win. to
> collect his check, he'll act like he cares from the bench. no problem.
>

If it was to prevent injuries to stop a trade why dud he practice?


> > Does not matter to prove the reason he was out. If he gets traded does
not
> > mean he did not sprain an ankle.
>
>
> maybe, maybe not, but you don't know for sure.

Exactly. If a trade happens you can not claim the rumor was true.


> myself. and it all makes sense. and knowing what a competitor wallace
is,
> I have to believe if the xrays were negative, that he's wrap the thing
tight
> and do his best to get in there as soon as possible.

That part I buy. Except I think his back is bothering him too the way he was
arranging towels and laying flat on his back during the game at the clips.
Before when he sat out a game he was on the bench.


> He's now missed 3 or 4
> games. He coulda just gone on the Injured list if it were really that
bad
> and sat out 5.

If it was known they were not gong to play him again because of a trade why
did they not do so sooner and activate R B-B and or Outlaw?
If it was unknown if he would be ready they would not have put him there
were he would not be available.


--
Laurel T
"He just kept saying 'Michael Jordan is going to
kill me.'"Sgt. Kirk Hartwell, after arresting
Kwame Brown for going 120 mph.
60 mph zone
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"Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:100eep3ha24raf9@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "toad" <papatoad.DeleteThis@mrstoad.com> wrote in message
> news:6rFNb.18257$4P6.10306@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>
> > > Leaks about "ongoing tallks" are often just negative phone calls that
> > happen
> > > every day between GMs.
> >
> >
> > that's true, and there's also media rats who will conjure up rumors just
> to
> > get some exposure... so someone will say "Joe Shmo is reporting"... then
> Joe
> > can call his parents who will be overjoyed, after which he'll cut out
the
> > article and tape it on the wall in his bathroom so he can remind himself
> how
> > great he is every time he pinches a loaf.
>
> Also just like news reporters the sportsreporter use lexus-nexus. So they
> plug in a name and rehash a story over and over.
>
>
> > > I think they would start Bashing Nash for taking on a player with a
huge
> > > contract with off court issues. Two 2 of the 3 things he said he would
> not
> > > do. Continue the tradition of taking talent over character. .
> >
> >
> > How many years does Iggy have left on his deal?
> >
>
> 2 years, 28 million.

if he continues performing like he has the past 2 years, ya think he'll get
another large contract? Big men with his ability are hard to come by and if
he proves he's healthy, well.
 >> Stay informed about: Hey Blazers Fans What Do You Think About These Trade Rumors 

"toad" <papatoad.RemoveThis@mrstoad.com> wrote in message
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>
> "Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:100eep3ha24raf9@corp.supernews.com...

> > 2 years, 28 million.
>
> if he continues performing like he has the past 2 years, ya think he'll
get
> another large contract?

Not unless GMs are nuts. He will likely get 2 year contracts lower than
this, with a team option the 2nd year in case he breaks again.

> Big men with his ability are hard to come by and if
> he proves he's healthy, well.

You think feet that have broken 5 times and are being held together medical
bailing wire (pins and bone grafts) will ever be considered "healthy"?


--
Laurel T
"When asked if he was a basketball player:
"No I clean giraffe ears."
Elvin Hayes
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"igor eduardo küpfer" <strudel.TakeThisOut@example.com> wrote in message
news:h5fe00t7a6o5bl045uj3oaksrbhac8jpe5@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 17:17:21 -0800, "Terraholm"
>
> Anyway, if you (toad) wants, I will perform an analysis on any set of
players
> you choose from the last 13 seasons. Select any players you believe to be
> consistent, or have heard described as consistent -- hell, any players
you'd
> like to see the stats for. Tell me what you think would define
consistency --
> points, fg%, double-doubles, rebounds, anything at all. Let me know if you
(or
> anyone else, for that matter) are interested in seeing such an analysis --
> it's not a challenge, just an offer to show how pattern can be seen in any
> large set of data.

To me consistent means accumulating fairly similar stats on a regular basis.
I understand inconsistency though. I look at every players' boxscores
everyday, and I even tabulate some on paper to compile PRABS over an
extended period of time. So I see the trends. I know a guy like Allen
Iverson has been hurt and since his injury, he hasn't quite put up the
numbers he was prior to. Marbury has some lows. Elton Brand has been hurt
and hasn't got his consistency to come around. A guy like Tim Duncan may be
one of the most consistent players, if not the most consistent player. I
mean, as far as sticking fairly close to his scoring average, in terms of
double doubles, and in general, his overall output.

Pierce has had some bad games, but he's been fairly consistent. In terms of
overall output, so has Kirilenko. He does have some bad games. But when I
think of consistency, I'm not talking about streaks. I'm not talking about
a guy who plays good one night, bad the next, and that's the trend. A
person who would fit that role would be someone like Michael Finley. Quite
up and down.

Jason Kidd has slumped, but over the course of the year, he'll be one of the
most consistent contributors.

I consider guys like Jermaine O'Neal, Shawn Marion, even Kenyon Martin, Ron
Artest, and Baron Davis to be fairly consistent. I base that on their
ability to play around or close to their averages more often than not.
That's pretty consistent. Jermaine has a double double virtually every
night on the court.

I'm also assuming you're taking into consideration minutes per game, or a
minimum requirement for statistics b/c if you're not, then you could
probably look at numerous guys who are averaging under 20 minutes a game and
see that they have much more consistent numbers based on those minutes
played. An example there is Stromile Swift. Has excellent statistics when
he gets minutes. Gets about 1 PRABS per minute played. But sometimes Hubie
only plays him 5-15 minutes, so that's obviously going to lower his
consistency.

So to me, I would have to say, consistency is best defined based output per
minutes played. If a guy is known to get 1 PRABS per minute played, then
sticking close to that average night in and night out would seem to define
consistency.

Many factors can define consistency though and I'm sure if you really dug
in, you'd see a lot of glaring inconsistencies in a lot of the guys I
mentioned. But there has to be a measuring stick. There has to be some
sort of minimum. Most people don't care if Doleac or a number of other pine
gatherers are consistent. And I'm sure if you dug in and really analyzed
everyone, you'd probably find many guys getting 10 mpg that could be just as
consistent (or more so) than the stars.

I'd be curious to know, if Kidd averages close to a triple double for 10
games, then has a couple rather poor statistical outings, then then goes 10
more close to a triple double, is that consistent? Scoring wise, I know
he's inconsistent, but PRABS wise, he could make up for inconsistencies in
scoring.
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"Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:100fqbnm4nqjo33@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "toad" <papatoad RemoveThis @mrstoad.com> wrote in message
> news:zmNNb.25612$et1.19474@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
> >
> > "Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:100eep3ha24raf9@corp.supernews.com...
>
> > > 2 years, 28 million.
> >
> > if he continues performing like he has the past 2 years, ya think he'll
> get
> > another large contract?
>
> Not unless GMs are nuts. He will likely get 2 year contracts lower than
> this, with a team option the 2nd year in case he breaks again.
>
> > Big men with his ability are hard to come by and if
> > he proves he's healthy, well.
>
> You think feet that have broken 5 times and are being held together
medical
> bailing wire (pins and bone grafts) will ever be considered "healthy"?

I think many guys have overcome injuries and proven to be durable. bones
heal.
 >> Stay informed about: Hey Blazers Fans What Do You Think About These Trade Rumors 

"toad" <papatoad RemoveThis @mrstoad.com> wrote in message
news:WE%Nb.3912$ko5.2763@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>
> "Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:100fqbnm4nqjo33@corp.supernews.com...

> > You think feet that have broken 5 times and are being held together
> medical
> > bailing wire (pins and bone grafts) will ever be considered "healthy"?
>
> I think many guys have overcome injuries and proven to be durable. bones
> heal.

And his are so fragile they keep breaking again and again. If you do not
think that can end a career ask Walton...
I see Z going to a team with a short window of contention. Since the Blazers
are rebuilding they should go for young healthy guys, not ones that have
missed much of their career already.

Which reminds me....
They do have that center I think is playing in Europe that just started
playing BBall before the draft. The one the agent put in the draft and
thought was unknown so he would not be drafted but some scout for the
Blazers had seen him. Have to check and see where and if he is playing.


--
Laurel T
"I told him, 'Coach, there's an ocean out there.
Let me go swimming,"' Bonzi Wells
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