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Ian Kognitow

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Since: Jun 26, 2007
Posts: 49



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:45 am
Post subject: New Jersey exhibition
Archived from groups: alt>sports>basketball>nba>phila-76ers (more info?)

It looks like Kurt's dread over Louis Williams moving up to SG may
happen sooner than expected the way he's going. Since he would be
supplanting Green, who offers the same downsides, I don't see why
not. He put in a good performance though this may as well have been
another summer league game given the Nets played without their top 4
players and the Sixers themselves only gave the Andres 16 minutes and
were without Dalembert and Korver. I did like that Williams only had
2 turnovers when he was apparently dominating the ball in the 2nd
half. That could bode well for him.

Other thoughts:

--The Nets played without their top 4 players and the Sixers were
still getting destroyed until Williams lit it up at the end in what
was virtual extended garbage time for any real game, and they did lose
despite the comeback.

--Iguodala again: 6 fga in 16 min. He can't even turn it up when
extension talks are at hand? If he shrinks back this year, demurring
to the likes of Williams, Green, and Carney on offense, the team will
be lucky to get 15 wins.

--He needed overtime but Carney: 2 reb, 4 ast to break Kurt's Carney
line by 1! Congratulations Rodney. Now don't be given 39 minutes of
play again.

--Young's line was pretty lousy again. In my Green versus Young
debate, though, they had equivalent shooting percentages and Young had
5 boards and 2 steals to Green's 0 and 0 (granted, Young actually had
27 min to 13 min).

--Is Evans going to be a *total* void on offense? I wasn't expecting
much but not one lousy field goal in 2 games--0-5 in 36 minutes--is
unacceptable. Can't Cheeks run at least a few token plays for him
like teams have done for Ben Wallace in the past, just to make sure
that he exists as some kind of presence on offense?

--In general, the team looks pretty lousy with negligible hope for
playoff contention. Williams, if still untested, looks pretty ready
for regular play--at least for this kind of rebuilding team. The team
is in dire need of frontcourt improvement. How soon before the team
seriously looks into dealing Miller?

--IK

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Kurt Straub

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Since: Oct 20, 2003
Posts: 212



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:44 am
Post subject: Re: New Jersey exhibition [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I actually watched the game, which was simultaneously painful and
interesting for most of the night. If you're just going by the box, Ian,
you got a fair idea of the game, but if anything the play was even worse
than the lines might suggest.

"Ian Kognitow" <covanus.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1192256517.158333.272770@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> It looks like Kurt's dread over Louis Williams moving up to SG may
> happen sooner than expected the way he's going. Since he would be
> supplanting Green, who offers the same downsides, I don't see why
> not.

One difference is that, last night, he was playing point. I shudder at the
thought of him playing defense at two guard for any stretch of time in a
regular season NBA game. On the other hand, if the alternative is Willie
Green--- or at least the Green who played last night--- you could hardly do
worse.

Green was terrible, Andre Miller was asleep, Evans did nothing but throw up
bricks. The starters were horrible to a man. Even Andre Ig looked like he
was mailing it in. They were equally atrocious both to start the game and
to start the second half. Coach Cheeks did the right thing pulling the
whole bunch early in both halves. The bench play was spotty, but at least
enthusiastic.

> He put in a good performance though this may as well have been
> another summer league game given the Nets played without their top 4
> players and the Sixers themselves only gave the Andres 16 minutes and
> were without Dalembert and Korver.

Let's hope this makes a difference when those guys are healthy and when
Andre Ig decides to wake up.

> I did like that Williams only had
> 2 turnovers when he was apparently dominating the ball in the 2nd
> half. That could bode well for him.

He did play well. N.B. He was at the point and mostly playing against the
Nets' scrubs.


Other thoughts:

> --The Nets played without their top 4 players and the Sixers were
> still getting destroyed until Williams lit it up at the end in what
> was virtual extended garbage time for any real game, and they did lose
> despite the comeback.

The Sixers actually should have won in regulation, but on the last play of
the game, Jason Smith let Nachbar drive right past him for a stuff. This
was after Smith had played excellent defense the whole rest of the game.
Like I said, the subs' play was spotty--- sometimes very good, sometimes
very bad.

> --Iguodala again: 6 fga in 16 min. He can't even turn it up when
> extension talks are at hand? If he shrinks back this year, demurring
> to the likes of Williams, Green, and Carney on offense, the team will
> be lucky to get 15 wins.

True.

> --He needed overtime but Carney: 2 reb, 4 ast to break Kurt's Carney
> line by 1! Congratulations Rodney. Now don't be given 39 minutes of
> play again.

Rodney had a lot of highs and lows this game. He played well enough in
spots to make you think he might have a future in the NBA. He also had
stretches where he would disappear, and remind you why he will again be
coming off the bench this year. However, as you noted, he did have enough
aggregate rebounds and assists that you would need two hands to count them,
which I do believe is a first for his career. That's progress of sorts.
Maybe one day he will do it in a regular season game.

> --Young's line was pretty lousy again. In my Green versus Young
> debate, though, they had equivalent shooting percentages and Young had
> 5 boards and 2 steals to Green's 0 and 0 (granted, Young actually had
> 27 min to 13 min).

Once again, they were both about equally lousy. If they keep us this play,
WG is going to start the season on the bench, and Young will have severely
limited minutes. It is going to keep Coach Cheeks up at night, trying to
figure out his two guard rotation.

> --In general, the team looks pretty lousy with negligible hope for
> playoff contention. Williams, if still untested, looks pretty ready
> for regular play--at least for this kind of rebuilding team. The team
> is in dire need of frontcourt improvement. How soon before the team
> seriously looks into dealing Miller?

Based on his play last night, no one would want him. But the direct answer
to your question is, no time soon. Cheeks was talking after the game about
his project for the year is for Williams to learn to play the PG position
full-time by sometimes pairing him with Miller on the court, in addition to
backing up Miller at PG. Right or wrong, Cheeks is clearly of the mind that
his PG of the future is not ready to start at PG for this team now.

---- Kurt Straub

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raihan4laura

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Since: Oct 14, 2007
Posts: 2



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:45 am
Post subject: Re: New Jersey exhibition [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Oct 13, 5:44 am, "Kurt Straub" <jkurtstr....RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote:

> Once again, they were both about equally lousy. If they keep us this play,
> WG is going to start the season on the bench, and Young will have severely
> limited minutes. It is going to keep Coach Cheeks up at night, trying to
> figure out his two guard rotation.

It shouldn't be that hard. Put Iguodala back at SG. He's playing at
least 40 min every game. Given the situation, put Korver back in the
lineup and play him 35 min a game. Let's say that both get moved up
respectively to 3 and 4 for 15 min a game each. That leaves 13 min at
SF and 23 at SG. Give Young the 13, maybe give Carney some of that if
Young is stinking it up too much. Give Carney 10 at SG and Williams
13 at SG (backing up Miller as well for another 13 min). Done.

> > is in dire need of frontcourt improvement. How soon before the team
> > seriously looks into dealing Miller?
>
> Based on his play last night, no one would want him. But the direct answer
> to your question is, no time soon. Cheeks was talking after the game about
> his project for the year is for Williams to learn to play the PG position
> full-time by sometimes pairing him with Miller on the court, in addition to
> backing up Miller at PG. Right or wrong, Cheeks is clearly of the mind that
> his PG of the future is not ready to start at PG for this team now.

But what exactly are the current objectives? I read somewhere that Ed
Snider admitted that the Sixers were on some sort of 3-year plan.
Fine: vision and long-term planning are good. But then, what's the
point of keeping Miller around then? Does anyone think he's going to
be able to play in three years as a 35-36 year old PG with no jumper?
While it's true that no contending team would go with Williams now,
frankly the Sixers are really not even close right now, despite
Cheeks' and King's usual wishful thinking (that has habitually led
them into embarrassing fire sales and buyouts of players when they
can't deny the reality of the situation anymore). What you say about
Miller's lackluster performance just makes the point all the more. As
opposed to earlier in the summer, it's probably too late now to get
something good for Miller unless a contender needs an injury
replacement, but the team should be looking to add talent for that 3-
year goal every way they can. If the team could get a frontcourt
player of similar talent to Miller (and at least somewhat younger) I'd
prefer them to make that deal and just keep Kevin Ollie around (and
you know how I feel about him) if they insist on a veteran presence.
In any case, as you say, right or wrong, the Sixers are fully
committed to Miller. The point of my original speculation was: let's
just see what happens if the team is 5-18, Miller is getting 10ppg and
7apg per game, Evans is scoring a big 2ppg, and Williams is getting a
solid 12ppg and 5apg off the bench.

--IK
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Kurt Straub

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Since: Oct 20, 2003
Posts: 212



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:03 pm
Post subject: Re: New Jersey exhibition [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Ian, what's this "raihan4laura" bit? :-)

--- KS

<raihan4laura RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1192334395.533731.29510@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 13, 5:44 am, "Kurt Straub" <jkurtstr... RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Once again, they were both about equally lousy. If they keep us this
>> play,
>> WG is going to start the season on the bench, and Young will have
>> severely
>> limited minutes. It is going to keep Coach Cheeks up at night, trying to
>> figure out his two guard rotation.
>
> It shouldn't be that hard. Put Iguodala back at SG. He's playing at
> least 40 min every game. Given the situation, put Korver back in the
> lineup and play him 35 min a game. Let's say that both get moved up
> respectively to 3 and 4 for 15 min a game each. That leaves 13 min at
> SF and 23 at SG. Give Young the 13, maybe give Carney some of that if
> Young is stinking it up too much. Give Carney 10 at SG and Williams
> 13 at SG (backing up Miller as well for another 13 min). Done.
>
>> > is in dire need of frontcourt improvement. How soon before the team
>> > seriously looks into dealing Miller?
>>
>> Based on his play last night, no one would want him. But the direct
>> answer
>> to your question is, no time soon. Cheeks was talking after the game
>> about
>> his project for the year is for Williams to learn to play the PG position
>> full-time by sometimes pairing him with Miller on the court, in addition
>> to
>> backing up Miller at PG. Right or wrong, Cheeks is clearly of the mind
>> that
>> his PG of the future is not ready to start at PG for this team now.
>
> But what exactly are the current objectives? I read somewhere that Ed
> Snider admitted that the Sixers were on some sort of 3-year plan.
> Fine: vision and long-term planning are good. But then, what's the
> point of keeping Miller around then? Does anyone think he's going to
> be able to play in three years as a 35-36 year old PG with no jumper?
> While it's true that no contending team would go with Williams now,
> frankly the Sixers are really not even close right now, despite
> Cheeks' and King's usual wishful thinking (that has habitually led
> them into embarrassing fire sales and buyouts of players when they
> can't deny the reality of the situation anymore). What you say about
> Miller's lackluster performance just makes the point all the more. As
> opposed to earlier in the summer, it's probably too late now to get
> something good for Miller unless a contender needs an injury
> replacement, but the team should be looking to add talent for that 3-
> year goal every way they can. If the team could get a frontcourt
> player of similar talent to Miller (and at least somewhat younger) I'd
> prefer them to make that deal and just keep Kevin Ollie around (and
> you know how I feel about him) if they insist on a veteran presence.
> In any case, as you say, right or wrong, the Sixers are fully
> committed to Miller. The point of my original speculation was: let's
> just see what happens if the team is 5-18, Miller is getting 10ppg and
> 7apg per game, Evans is scoring a big 2ppg, and Williams is getting a
> solid 12ppg and 5apg off the bench.
>
> --IK
>
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Ian Kognitow

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Since: Jun 26, 2007
Posts: 49



(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:45 am
Post subject: Re: New Jersey exhibition [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Oct 14, 2:03 pm, "Kurt Straub" <jkurtstr... DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote:
> Ian, what's this "raihan4laura" bit? :-)
>
> --- KS

Oops. Was accessing the group through my friend's computer and I
guess I forgot to log in to my own gmail account. Won't he be
embarrassed when he finds out he has a history of long-winded posts to
near-defunct usenet groups.

--IK
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