Kidd says Nets are about winning

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 12:25:03 -0400, "Frankie T." <frankiet RemoveThis @aol.com>
wrote:

>His Nets teams have had a winning record since he got here and last years
>run
>to grab the eighth seed after the horrible start was impressive in my
>opinion.
>Winning a championships is the ultimate winner but you can be considered a
>winning player
>without winning a title.I don't there are too many teams that J Kidd
>wouldn't make better.
>

OK, he;s a good player, but is he a winner. Does he have that
intangible quality of leadership or character that allows a player to
dig deeper and win champips, to put his team on his back and carry
them? Does he have the abilty to bring his team together as a unit
and define them. Does he have the ability to come up big when the
game is on the line.

The answer is pretty much no. If I were a coach/gm on a team that
already had a winning superstar, e.g. the Spurs, I would defintely not
trade a solid role player, e.g. Tony Parker, for Kidd.

>
>
>"Marcus Kwan" <mnospamkwan1 RemoveThis @gte.net> wrote in message
>news:sms2d19j9fjdq8i0m52c2oa0bnhrtnldvj@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 09:19:46 -0400, "Frankie T." <frankiet RemoveThis @aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >You have to watch him every game and he clearly is a winning player.
>> >
>>
>> So much so that two other teams felt the need to trade him. But I
>> guess he does have the rings to back up talk of him being a winner.
>>
>> >
>> >"Marcus Kwan" <mnospamkwan1 RemoveThis @gte.net> wrote in message
>> >news:bgarc1526u009ui3jqja5ggfrdotn7spus@4ax.com...
>> >> On 7 Jul 2005 14:23:26 -0700, "bill_mill" <bill_mill RemoveThis @hotmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >you're pleased that the Spurs have Frenchie rather than the Kidd?
>this
>> >> >is one of the stupidest statements i have read in my years of lurking
>> >> >on rec.sport.basketball.pro.
>> >>
>> >> Parker has won how many championshipos as a starter, and Kidd has how
>> >> many? Kidd had arguably comparable talent in Van Horn, Kittles,
>> >> Jefferson, and Kenyon, but never took them to the title.
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >Luc Longley won 3 championships as a role player... does that mean
>that
>> >> >the Bulls shouldn't have traded him for big Pat Ewing if they had the
>> >> >chance? this is equivalent to your statement. you probably think Bob
>> >> >Horry with his 7.5 point/4 rebound career average is invaluable also.
>> >>
>> >> As a role player, Horry has proven his worth time and again. Would I
>> >> upgrade him for a better player, sure. But he has definitely proven
>> >> that he is a good teammate and plays well under pressure.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >and who cares about character? i pay to watch basketball, not babysit
>> >> >the players. i'd advise you to mind your own business.
>> >>
>> >> huh?
>> >>
>> >> Oh, I guess you think I'm talking about the domestic violence issue
>> >> with Kidd. No, I was actually talking about his lockerroom presence.
>> >> Having watched him, Jimmy Jackson, and Mashburn completely destroy the
>> >> team here in Dallas, than watching him create issues whereever he goes
>> >> (how many times has he threatened to demand a trade in NJ), I am
>> >> pretty convinced that he is not a winner and has no heart. The wife
>> >> smacking wasn't even a consideration for me.
>> >
>>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Kidd says Nets are about winning 

Marcus Kwan wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 12:25:03 -0400, "Frankie T." <frankiet.DeleteThis@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
>> His Nets teams have had a winning record since he got here and last
>> years run
>> to grab the eighth seed after the horrible start was impressive in
>> my opinion.
>> Winning a championships is the ultimate winner but you can be
>> considered a winning player
>> without winning a title.I don't there are too many teams that J Kidd
>> wouldn't make better.
>>
>
> OK, he;s a good player, but is he a winner. Does he have that
> intangible quality of leadership or character that allows a player to
> dig deeper and win champips, to put his team on his back and carry
> them? Does he have the abilty to bring his team together as a unit
> and define them. Does he have the ability to come up big when the
> game is on the line.

Perhaps he just ran into better teams than the one he was on...

>
> The answer is pretty much no. If I were a coach/gm on a team that
> already had a winning superstar, e.g. the Spurs, I would defintely not
> trade a solid role player, e.g. Tony Parker, for Kidd.

Think Pop is pretty good on those decissions? Because he would have done
just that if Kidd had not decided to stay with the nets...


--
Laurel T
"Superstar- A player who hears what he
doesn't want to hear, sees what he doesn't
want to see, and does what he doesn't want to do"
-Unknown
 >> Stay informed about: Kidd says Nets are about winning 

"Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamNot_ DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3jvkorFrtcvlU1@individual.net...
> Marcus Kwan wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 12:25:03 -0400, "Frankie T." <frankiet DeleteThis @aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> His Nets teams have had a winning record since he got here and last
>>> years run
>>> to grab the eighth seed after the horrible start was impressive in
>>> my opinion.
>>> Winning a championships is the ultimate winner but you can be
>>> considered a winning player
>>> without winning a title.I don't there are too many teams that J Kidd
>>> wouldn't make better.
>>>
>>
>> OK, he;s a good player, but is he a winner. Does he have that
>> intangible quality of leadership or character that allows a player to
>> dig deeper and win champips, to put his team on his back and carry
>> them? Does he have the abilty to bring his team together as a unit
>> and define them. Does he have the ability to come up big when the
>> game is on the line.
>
> Perhaps he just ran into better teams than the one he was on...

i agree. nets weren't as good as the lakers or spurs.

>>
>> The answer is pretty much no. If I were a coach/gm on a team that
>> already had a winning superstar, e.g. the Spurs, I would defintely not
>> trade a solid role player, e.g. Tony Parker, for Kidd.
>
> Think Pop is pretty good on those decissions? Because he would have done
> just that if Kidd had not decided to stay with the nets...

i think even good coaches (and gm's) make mistakes. charles smith was one of
pop's. he's missed some stars in the draft. i feel like the spurs game
didn't suit jason, just as the rockets game didn't suit pippen.

dave
 >> Stay informed about: Kidd says Nets are about winning 

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 11:01:45 -0700, "Terraholm"
<terraholm_SpamNot_.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Marcus Kwan wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 12:25:03 -0400, "Frankie T." <frankiet.TakeThisOut@aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> His Nets teams have had a winning record since he got here and last
>>> years run
>>> to grab the eighth seed after the horrible start was impressive in
>>> my opinion.
>>> Winning a championships is the ultimate winner but you can be
>>> considered a winning player
>>> without winning a title.I don't there are too many teams that J Kidd
>>> wouldn't make better.
>>>
>>
>> OK, he;s a good player, but is he a winner. Does he have that
>> intangible quality of leadership or character that allows a player to
>> dig deeper and win champips, to put his team on his back and carry
>> them? Does he have the abilty to bring his team together as a unit
>> and define them. Does he have the ability to come up big when the
>> game is on the line.
>
>Perhaps he just ran into better teams than the one he was on...
>

I'm not judging simply on his play in the finals. And maybe I'm
jaundiced by the train wreck he left behind in Dallas. My belief
then, and it remains, is that had he more heart or character, he could
have molded that Dallas team into something special. And the things I
continue to see with him conitnuing to threaten to demand a trade if
the team doesn't do what he wants still smacks of someone who has
never figured out how to be a leader.

>>
>> The answer is pretty much no. If I were a coach/gm on a team that
>> already had a winning superstar, e.g. the Spurs, I would defintely not
>> trade a solid role player, e.g. Tony Parker, for Kidd.
>
>Think Pop is pretty good on those decissions? Because he would have done
>just that if Kidd had not decided to stay with the nets...

I think Pop is very good, but that is one I am very glad slipped
through his hands, though I am not as sure that it was a done deal.
 >> Stay informed about: Kidd says Nets are about winning 

Marcus Kwan wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 11:01:45 -0700, "Terraholm"
> <terraholm_SpamNot_ DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Marcus Kwan wrote:
>>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 12:25:03 -0400, "Frankie T." <frankiet DeleteThis @aol.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> His Nets teams have had a winning record since he got here and last
>>>> years run
>>>> to grab the eighth seed after the horrible start was impressive in
>>>> my opinion.
>>>> Winning a championships is the ultimate winner but you can be
>>>> considered a winning player
>>>> without winning a title.I don't there are too many teams that J
>>>> Kidd wouldn't make better.
>>>>
>>>
>>> OK, he;s a good player, but is he a winner. Does he have that
>>> intangible quality of leadership or character that allows a player
>>> to dig deeper and win champips, to put his team on his back and
>>> carry them? Does he have the abilty to bring his team together as
>>> a unit and define them. Does he have the ability to come up big
>>> when the game is on the line.
>>
>> Perhaps he just ran into better teams than the one he was on...
>>
>
> I'm not judging simply on his play in the finals.
\

Well you are talking about someone that pack his team to the finals, so that
would have been the spot for your above take on it.

>And maybe I'm
> jaundiced by the train wreck he left behind in Dallas.
> My belief
> then, and it remains, is that had he more heart or character, he could
> have molded that Dallas team into something special.

Kidd was a kid and he had plenty of help on that one.

> And the things I
> continue to see with him conitnuing to threaten to demand a trade if
> the team doesn't do what he wants still smacks of someone who has
> never figured out how to be a leader.

Agreed, he does talk out of class...

>
>>>
>>> The answer is pretty much no. If I were a coach/gm on a team that
>>> already had a winning superstar, e.g. the Spurs, I would defintely
>>> not trade a solid role player, e.g. Tony Parker, for Kidd.
>>
>> Think Pop is pretty good on those decissions? Because he would have
>> done just that if Kidd had not decided to stay with the nets...
>
> I think Pop is very good, but that is one I am very glad slipped
> through his hands, though I am not as sure that it was a done deal.

Does not matter if it was a done deal, Pop's quotes at the time said as
much.
I agree with him, Kidd makes teams better on the court.


--
"Yeah, I got a way to defend it.
Bring a bat to the game
and kill one of them."
Van Exel on the Jazz pick and roll.
 >> Stay informed about: Kidd says Nets are about winning 

Marcus Kwan wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 12:25:03 -0400, "Frankie T." <frankiet.DeleteThis@aol.com>
> wrote:
>

<snip>

>
> OK, he;s a good player, but is he a winner. Does he have that
> intangible quality of leadership or character that allows a player to
> dig deeper and win champips, to put his team on his back and carry
> them? Does he have the abilty to bring his team together as a unit
> and define them. Does he have the ability to come up big when the
> game is on the line.
>
> The answer is pretty much no. If I were a coach/gm on a team that
> already had a winning superstar, e.g. the Spurs, I would defintely not
> trade a solid role player, e.g. Tony Parker, for Kidd.
>


you wouldn't trade a solid role player for Jason Kidd, the best pure
point guard in the NBA (with apologies to Steve Nash)? you have got to
be kidding.
 >> Stay informed about: Kidd says Nets are about winning 

Marcus Kwan wrote:
> On 19 Jul 2005 16:49:27 -0700, "bill_mill" <bill_mill RemoveThis @hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Marcus Kwan wrote:
> >> On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 12:25:03 -0400, "Frankie T." <frankiet RemoveThis @aol.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >
> ><snip>
> >
> >>
> >> OK, he;s a good player, but is he a winner. Does he have that
> >> intangible quality of leadership or character that allows a player to
> >> dig deeper and win champips, to put his team on his back and carry
> >> them? Does he have the abilty to bring his team together as a unit
> >> and define them. Does he have the ability to come up big when the
> >> game is on the line.
> >>
> >> The answer is pretty much no. If I were a coach/gm on a team that
> >> already had a winning superstar, e.g. the Spurs, I would defintely not
> >> trade a solid role player, e.g. Tony Parker, for Kidd.
> >>
> >
> >
> >you wouldn't trade a solid role player for Jason Kidd, the best pure
> >point guard in the NBA (with apologies to Steve Nash)? you have got to
> >be kidding.
>
> Nope. And I think Kidd's track record speaks for itself. Talent is
> not everything, you also have to make the pieces fit together.
> Chemistry matters, character matters, role playing matters. You don't
> need an all-star at every position to be a great team. Sometimes, that
> can be a detriment.
 >> Stay informed about: Kidd says Nets are about winning 

On 19 Jul 2005 16:49:27 -0700, "bill_mill" <bill_mill.RemoveThis@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
>Marcus Kwan wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 12:25:03 -0400, "Frankie T." <frankiet.RemoveThis@aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>
><snip>
>
>>
>> OK, he;s a good player, but is he a winner. Does he have that
>> intangible quality of leadership or character that allows a player to
>> dig deeper and win champips, to put his team on his back and carry
>> them? Does he have the abilty to bring his team together as a unit
>> and define them. Does he have the ability to come up big when the
>> game is on the line.
>>
>> The answer is pretty much no. If I were a coach/gm on a team that
>> already had a winning superstar, e.g. the Spurs, I would defintely not
>> trade a solid role player, e.g. Tony Parker, for Kidd.
>>
>
>
>you wouldn't trade a solid role player for Jason Kidd, the best pure
>point guard in the NBA (with apologies to Steve Nash)? you have got to
>be kidding.

Nope. And I think Kidd's track record speaks for itself. Talent is
not everything, you also have to make the pieces fit together.
Chemistry matters, character matters, role playing matters. You don't
need an all-star at every position to be a great team. Sometimes, that
can be a detriment.
 >> Stay informed about: Kidd says Nets are about winning 

Hey Marcus this was a good thread I wish this group would be more active
because I love the Nets and would like them to do good and I think Marcus is
a good and knowledgeable
basketball fan and I think that if the Nets do indeed sign Rahim that we
have an excellent 8 man rotation
and the Nets can make some noise in the east and in the playoffs what do you
think about that Mr Marcus I would like to know.

"bill_mill" <bill_mill.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1121882186.899218.50420@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Marcus Kwan wrote:
> > On 19 Jul 2005 16:49:27 -0700, "bill_mill" <bill_mill.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >Marcus Kwan wrote:
> > >> On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 12:25:03 -0400, "Frankie T." <frankiet.TakeThisOut@aol.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >
> > ><snip>
> > >
> > >>
> > >> OK, he;s a good player, but is he a winner. Does he have that
> > >> intangible quality of leadership or character that allows a player to
> > >> dig deeper and win champips, to put his team on his back and carry
> > >> them? Does he have the abilty to bring his team together as a unit
> > >> and define them. Does he have the ability to come up big when the
> > >> game is on the line.
> > >>
> > >> The answer is pretty much no. If I were a coach/gm on a team that
> > >> already had a winning superstar, e.g. the Spurs, I would defintely
not
> > >> trade a solid role player, e.g. Tony Parker, for Kidd.
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >you wouldn't trade a solid role player for Jason Kidd, the best pure
> > >point guard in the NBA (with apologies to Steve Nash)? you have got to
> > >be kidding.
> >
> > Nope. And I think Kidd's track record speaks for itself. Talent is
> > not everything, you also have to make the pieces fit together.
> > Chemistry matters, character matters, role playing matters. You don't
> > need an all-star at every position to be a great team. Sometimes, that
> > can be a detriment.
>
 >> Stay informed about: Kidd says Nets are about winning 

If the Nets do really sign Rahim everyone will really get a chance to
see how good Jason Kid really is as a leader,with there starting 5 then
Kidd should be able to lead them back to the finals and further this
time,in my own opinion i think Rahim is alot better then Kenyon Martin
and Nenad a better starting center than Jason Collins was when the Nets
went to the Finals last time,and the only thing that would take them one
step above the rest of the teams in the East would be if Rod Thorn
somehow could convince Larry Brown to come coach the Nets over the
Knicks,there would be so much more talent on the Nets and the team Rod
Thorn has put together is so much closer to Larry Browns type of team
than the Knicks are and i'm pretty sure Rod Thorn could convince
Lawrence Frank to become an assistant with Larry Brown, he seems like
the type of person and coach that would do what ever it takes to help
the Nets win.Just imagine how devastating it would beto the Knicks and
ther fans if Larry Brown came to the Nets instead and the Nets than win
a Title.


Rich C.
 >> Stay informed about: Kidd says Nets are about winning 

"bill_mill" <bill_mill RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1121816967.850638.123280@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Marcus Kwan wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 12:25:03 -0400, "Frankie T." <frankiet RemoveThis @aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>
> <snip>
>
>>
>> OK, he;s a good player, but is he a winner. Does he have that
>> intangible quality of leadership or character that allows a player to
>> dig deeper and win champips, to put his team on his back and carry
>> them? Does he have the abilty to bring his team together as a unit
>> and define them. Does he have the ability to come up big when the
>> game is on the line.
>>
>> The answer is pretty much no. If I were a coach/gm on a team that
>> already had a winning superstar, e.g. the Spurs, I would defintely not
>> trade a solid role player, e.g. Tony Parker, for Kidd.
>>
>
>
> you wouldn't trade a solid role player for Jason Kidd, the best pure
> point guard in the NBA (with apologies to Steve Nash)? you have got to
> be kidding.
>
i wouldnt have done it either, but for different reasons. and whats
happened since jkidd resigned with NJ pretty much shows why. a 30+ max
player at the beginning of his contract would eat up so much cap space. it
came down to signing an all world point guard about to hit the downside of
his career, or keep your young core together. does anyone really think kidd
+ duncan + scrubs would be in a position to contend for the next 5 or so
years? kidd is already showing signs of wear and tear. instead of kidd,
the spurs kept ginobili, parker, bowen, had room to sign horry, and picked
up brent barry.
its just a personal preference, but i think any good GM would be wise not to
have max contract players with similar contract lengths at the same time.

lee
 >> Stay informed about: Kidd says Nets are about winning 

The spurs don't have Kidd because he chose not to sign with them not because
the spurs didn't want him.

"Lee Watkins" <spamisforsandwiches-lwatkins DeleteThis @falcon.tamucc.edu> wrote in
message news:dc6c8d$b8h$1@news.tamu.edu...
>
> "bill_mill" <bill_mill DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1121816967.850638.123280@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >
> > Marcus Kwan wrote:
> >> On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 12:25:03 -0400, "Frankie T." <frankiet DeleteThis @aol.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> >>
> >> OK, he;s a good player, but is he a winner. Does he have that
> >> intangible quality of leadership or character that allows a player to
> >> dig deeper and win champips, to put his team on his back and carry
> >> them? Does he have the abilty to bring his team together as a unit
> >> and define them. Does he have the ability to come up big when the
> >> game is on the line.
> >>
> >> The answer is pretty much no. If I were a coach/gm on a team that
> >> already had a winning superstar, e.g. the Spurs, I would defintely not
> >> trade a solid role player, e.g. Tony Parker, for Kidd.
> >>
> >
> >
> > you wouldn't trade a solid role player for Jason Kidd, the best pure
> > point guard in the NBA (with apologies to Steve Nash)? you have got to
> > be kidding.
> >
> i wouldnt have done it either, but for different reasons. and whats
> happened since jkidd resigned with NJ pretty much shows why. a 30+ max
> player at the beginning of his contract would eat up so much cap space.
it
> came down to signing an all world point guard about to hit the downside of
> his career, or keep your young core together. does anyone really think
kidd
> + duncan + scrubs would be in a position to contend for the next 5 or so
> years? kidd is already showing signs of wear and tear. instead of kidd,
> the spurs kept ginobili, parker, bowen, had room to sign horry, and picked
> up brent barry.
> its just a personal preference, but i think any good GM would be wise not
to
> have max contract players with similar contract lengths at the same time.
>
> lee
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Kidd says Nets are about winning 

yes? and?


lee


"Frankie T." <frankiet.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in message
news:XdgGe.1537$7Q1.1517@fe09.lga...
> The spurs don't have Kidd because he chose not to sign with them not
> because
> the spurs didn't want him.
>
> "Lee Watkins" <spamisforsandwiches-lwatkins.TakeThisOut@falcon.tamucc.edu> wrote in
> message news:dc6c8d$b8h$1@news.tamu.edu...
>>
>> "bill_mill" <bill_mill.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1121816967.850638.123280@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> >
>> > Marcus Kwan wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 12:25:03 -0400, "Frankie T." <frankiet.TakeThisOut@aol.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >
>> > <snip>
>> >
>> >>
>> >> OK, he;s a good player, but is he a winner. Does he have that
>> >> intangible quality of leadership or character that allows a player to
>> >> dig deeper and win champips, to put his team on his back and carry
>> >> them? Does he have the abilty to bring his team together as a unit
>> >> and define them. Does he have the ability to come up big when the
>> >> game is on the line.
>> >>
>> >> The answer is pretty much no. If I were a coach/gm on a team that
>> >> already had a winning superstar, e.g. the Spurs, I would defintely not
>> >> trade a solid role player, e.g. Tony Parker, for Kidd.
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > you wouldn't trade a solid role player for Jason Kidd, the best pure
>> > point guard in the NBA (with apologies to Steve Nash)? you have got to
>> > be kidding.
>> >
>> i wouldnt have done it either, but for different reasons. and whats
>> happened since jkidd resigned with NJ pretty much shows why. a 30+ max
>> player at the beginning of his contract would eat up so much cap space.
> it
>> came down to signing an all world point guard about to hit the downside
>> of
>> his career, or keep your young core together. does anyone really think
> kidd
>> + duncan + scrubs would be in a position to contend for the next 5 or so
>> years? kidd is already showing signs of wear and tear. instead of kidd,
>> the spurs kept ginobili, parker, bowen, had room to sign horry, and
>> picked
>> up brent barry.
>> its just a personal preference, but i think any good GM would be wise not
> to
>> have max contract players with similar contract lengths at the same time.
>>
>> lee
>>
>>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Kidd says Nets are about winning