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Paul J. Berg

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Since: Feb 24, 2006
Posts: 6



(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:33 pm
Post subject: Now we know why Paul Allen needs $100 Million
Archived from groups: alt>sports>basketball>nba>port-blazers (more info?)

From London Sunday Times

SOONER or later even a billionaire runs out of space.

Paul Allen, co-founder of Microsoft and reputed to be the world's
richest bachelor, has sent agents to shop for a new luxury boat. But the
job of the new boat will be simply to trail his 413ft mega-yacht, the
Octopus, and carry its luggage.

Allen, 53, whose on-board parties are famous for A-list guests and
lavish hospitality, has run out of storage after cramming Octopus with a
recording studio, a basketball court and parking space for two
helicopters.

His move will raise the target for the aspiring wealthy yacht owner —
the new breed of "shadow boats", also known as "toy haulers", can be as
big as superyachts of a decade ago.

One company, Shadow Marine in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, is now dedicated
to producing shadow boats and has already taken three orders.

Allen's agents are understood to be focusing on the Zein, a motor yacht
which, under the name Deo Juvante II, was given by Aristotle Onassis,
the shipping tycoon, to Prince Rainier of Monaco and Princess Grace for
their honeymoon in 1956.

The 147ft ship was built in 1928 and saw service with the Royal Navy in
the second world war. It may be cramped by modern billionaire standards,
but its £367,000 price tag is a bargain compared with the
multi-million-pound cost of a new luxury cruiser.

Neither Allen nor the Mexican broker Baja Yachts, which is showing
buyers around the Zein at its Florida mooring, returned calls last week.
But Allen's advisers have been seen at the mooring in Fort Lauderdale.
"They are interested in turning the Zein into a shadow boat, which might
seem like a dreadful insult to a classic beauty but it's all the rage
among the super-super rich," said one veteran skipper.

Orders for new yachts grew by 28% last year, according to ShowBoats
International magazine, which calculates that the total length of luxury
yachts under construction currently amounts to 14 miles.

There are nearly 6,000 80ft-plus "mega-yachts" sailing the seas, twice
as many as a decade ago. Shadow boats, however, are for billionaires who
want to step up from captain to admiral of their own fleet.

Last year the Paladin Shadow, a former offshore drilling supply ship,
was unveiled as the first designated shadow ship at the Fort Lauderdale
Boat Show in Florida. Several others are under construction.

John Divine, a spokesman for Shadow Marine, said the vessel could carry
two smaller 40ft boats, a mini-submarine, jet-skis, motorbikes and a
Humvee 4x4 and still have room on the top deck for two helicopters.

They are designed to follow their mother ship and offer not only extra
luggage room but also video-wired cabins for children who can be kept
separate from their partying parents.

Manufacturers and outfitters are targeting only the world's wealthiest
nautical enthusiasts, such as Roman Abramovich, the British-based
Russian oligarch and owner of Chelsea Football Club.

Abramovich already has his own fleet, including the 375ft Pelorus, and
two other magayachts, but is now believed to be drawing up blueprints
for a new ship. This would outsize the 525ft Platinum, owned by the
Dubai royal family and currently the world's longest.

Abramovich is a relative newcomer to high–priced yachting. Three years
ago he spent £50m on his first mega-yacht, the 300ft Le Grand Bleu,
taking it off the hands of Paul Allen who had traded up to the Octopus.

Allen, who left Microsoft in 1983 to battle blood cancer only to return
a few years later with a bolder, more hedonistic outlook, loves his
toys.

The three-year-old Octopus may now be only the fourth-longest private
yacht in the world, but it offers all the latest in fun technologies
including a detachable yellow submarine.

It takes 60 crew, including a troop of former US navy security
specialists.

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Blazer Fan Dan

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Since: Jun 09, 2005
Posts: 312



(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Now we know why Paul Allen needs $100 Million [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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this is why some of the things he says just rub a LOT of people the
wrong way.

I understand not wanting to throw money at the blazers, but at the same
time, the amount of money he'd supposidely *lose* over the next 3
years, would almost be off-set by how much he'd pay NOW, ifyou include
the money he'd then gain by owning the arena again.

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mmasw

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Since: May 25, 2007
Posts: 158



(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Now we know why Paul Allen needs $100 Million [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 21:33:08 -0700, pjberg.RemoveThis@webtv.net (Paul J. Berg)
wrote:

>From London Sunday Times
>
>SOONER or later even a billionaire runs out of space.
>
>Paul Allen, co-founder of Microsoft and reputed to be the world's
>richest bachelor, has sent agents to shop for a new luxury boat. But the
>job of the new boat will be simply to trail his 413ft mega-yacht, the
>Octopus, and carry its luggage.
>
>Allen, 53, whose on-board parties are famous for A-list guests and
>lavish hospitality, has run out of storage after cramming Octopus with a
>recording studio, a basketball court and parking space for two
>helicopters.
>
>His move will raise the target for the aspiring wealthy yacht owner —
>the new breed of "shadow boats", also known as "toy haulers", can be as
>big as superyachts of a decade ago.
>
>One company, Shadow Marine in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, is now dedicated
>to producing shadow boats and has already taken three orders.
>
>Allen's agents are understood to be focusing on the Zein, a motor yacht
>which, under the name Deo Juvante II, was given by Aristotle Onassis,
>the shipping tycoon, to Prince Rainier of Monaco and Princess Grace for
>their honeymoon in 1956.
>
>The 147ft ship was built in 1928 and saw service with the Royal Navy in
>the second world war. It may be cramped by modern billionaire standards,
>but its £367,000 price tag is a bargain compared with the
>multi-million-pound cost of a new luxury cruiser.
>
>Neither Allen nor the Mexican broker Baja Yachts, which is showing
>buyers around the Zein at its Florida mooring, returned calls last week.
>But Allen's advisers have been seen at the mooring in Fort Lauderdale.
>"They are interested in turning the Zein into a shadow boat, which might
>seem like a dreadful insult to a classic beauty but it's all the rage
>among the super-super rich," said one veteran skipper.
>
>Orders for new yachts grew by 28% last year, according to ShowBoats
>International magazine, which calculates that the total length of luxury
>yachts under construction currently amounts to 14 miles.
>
>There are nearly 6,000 80ft-plus "mega-yachts" sailing the seas, twice
>as many as a decade ago. Shadow boats, however, are for billionaires who
>want to step up from captain to admiral of their own fleet.
>
>Last year the Paladin Shadow, a former offshore drilling supply ship,
>was unveiled as the first designated shadow ship at the Fort Lauderdale
>Boat Show in Florida. Several others are under construction.
>
>John Divine, a spokesman for Shadow Marine, said the vessel could carry
>two smaller 40ft boats, a mini-submarine, jet-skis, motorbikes and a
>Humvee 4x4 and still have room on the top deck for two helicopters.
>
>They are designed to follow their mother ship and offer not only extra
>luggage room but also video-wired cabins for children who can be kept
>separate from their partying parents.
>
>Manufacturers and outfitters are targeting only the world's wealthiest
>nautical enthusiasts, such as Roman Abramovich, the British-based
>Russian oligarch and owner of Chelsea Football Club.
>
>Abramovich already has his own fleet, including the 375ft Pelorus, and
>two other magayachts, but is now believed to be drawing up blueprints
>for a new ship. This would outsize the 525ft Platinum, owned by the
>Dubai royal family and currently the world's longest.
>
>Abramovich is a relative newcomer to high–priced yachting. Three years
>ago he spent £50m on his first mega-yacht, the 300ft Le Grand Bleu,
>taking it off the hands of Paul Allen who had traded up to the Octopus.
>
>Allen, who left Microsoft in 1983 to battle blood cancer only to return
>a few years later with a bolder, more hedonistic outlook, loves his
>toys.
>
>The three-year-old Octopus may now be only the fourth-longest private
>yacht in the world, but it offers all the latest in fun technologies
>including a detachable yellow submarine.
>
>It takes 60 crew, including a troop of former US navy security
>specialists.

they need to run this story in the oregonian a couple of times a week
PLUS use it to accompany any suggestion by Allen that taxpayers need
to come to his aid
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Blazer Fan Dan

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Since: Jun 09, 2005
Posts: 312



(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:05 am
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has anyone actually read where Paul Allen suggested that tax payers
come to his aid?
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swillabrew

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Since: Feb 18, 2007
Posts: 230



(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:23 am
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Isn't asking the city for help the same as asking tax payers? The city
gets its money from the citizens in one way or another.

Go Blazers !
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Blazer Fan Dan

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Since: Jun 09, 2005
Posts: 312



(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:40 pm
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nope. the city can get a loan from the US government, at a much better
interest rate than anyone else can, and the team could pay back the
city.
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Blazer Fan Dan

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Since: Jun 09, 2005
Posts: 312



(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:12 pm
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he defaulted on this loan because he was playing in essence 15 million
a year.

if the loan turned out to be paid back at a lot less than that, he'd be
making more money.

plus, if he's the guaranteer, he'd have to put up collatoral, iirc.
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Swillabrew

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Since: Nov 09, 2005
Posts: 63



(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:06 pm
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"Blazer Fan Dan" <BlazerFanDan RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1144185140.304378.276830@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> he defaulted on this loan because he was playing in essence 15 million
> a year.
>
> if the loan turned out to be paid back at a lot less than that, he'd be
> making more money.
>
> plus, if he's the guaranteer, he'd have to put up collatoral, iirc.
>

Nah, that's why these guys create a new corporation for anything they do.
When the going gets tough, they just declare bankruptcy & fold the tents.
Of course, in Paul's case, then he whines about it anyway.

Nobody had a gun to his head when all this transpired. Allen wanted to own
a state of the art arena & an NBA team, so he rushed into things without
seeking or following advice from some MBAs who could have probably helped
him do better.

Between the billionaire-type spending he does on other endeavors, not to
mention his personal life, it's just tough to muster any sympathy for the
guy.

Go Blazers !
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Terraholm

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Since: Apr 05, 2006
Posts: 5



(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:52 pm
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Swillabrew wrote:
> "Blazer Fan Dan" <BlazerFanDan RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1144185140.304378.276830@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>> he defaulted on this loan because he was playing in essence 15
>> million a year.
>>
>> if the loan turned out to be paid back at a lot less than that, he'd
>> be making more money.
>>
>> plus, if he's the guaranteer, he'd have to put up collatoral, iirc.
>>
>
> Nah, that's why these guys create a new corporation for anything they
> do. When the going gets tough, they just declare bankruptcy & fold
> the tents.

The article I read said that Allen would basically have to co-sign the loan as a personal
responsibility.
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mmasw

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Since: May 25, 2007
Posts: 158



(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:01 pm
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On 4 Apr 2006 12:40:50 -0700, "Blazer Fan Dan"
<BlazerFanDan.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:

>nope. the city can get a loan from the US government, at a much better
>interest rate than anyone else can, and the team could pay back the
>city.


first....I'm not sure that's true at all, and I seriously doubt they
could for the purposes of bailing out one of the word's richest men
and a basketball team

second....if they were able to get a "below market" loan from the fed
gov that means federal taxpayers would be footing the bill

third...paul allen could get a loan...he certainly has assets for
collateral. He doesn't want a loan, he wants the city to give him
money and bail him out of his self-created mess

fourth...the city isn't gonna help paul allen. Their pretense of
"listening" is as sincere as david stern's negotiating effort.
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Blazer Fan Dan

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Since: Jun 09, 2005
Posts: 312



(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:10 pm
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mmasw wrote:
> On 4 Apr 2006 12:40:50 -0700, "Blazer Fan Dan"
> <BlazerFanDan.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >nope. the city can get a loan from the US government, at a much better
> >interest rate than anyone else can, and the team could pay back the
> >city.
>
>
> first....I'm not sure that's true at all, and I seriously doubt they
> could for the purposes of bailing out one of the word's richest men
> and a basketball team

cities could get loans to do whatever the hell they want. the
government doesn't care, they make money on the deal.

>
> second....if they were able to get a "below market" loan from the fed
> gov that means federal taxpayers would be footing the bill

not really. personal guaranteer (sp) implies he (paul allen) guarantees
the bill is paid by him. thats a legal binding issue, and not something
he can skirt.

> third...paul allen could get a loan...he certainly has assets for
> collateral. He doesn't want a loan, he wants the city to give him
> money and bail him out of his self-created mess

sure he can get a loan, but the city has benefitted FAR more than him,
and he was willing to do something that was even more benefitticial to
the city than the team.

So while it's true he could get a loan, thats like saying that I can
get a loan for 15K at 5%, I shouldn't try to get one at 2% through a
bank because I'm the one who borrowed money to get a car.


> fourth...the city isn't gonna help paul allen. Their pretense of
> "listening" is as sincere as david stern's negotiating effort.

yep, and the team is moving too. despite facts and logic.
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Swillabrew

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Since: Nov 09, 2005
Posts: 63



(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:38 pm
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"Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamNada_.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:49h0p0Fol3saU1@individual.net...
> Swillabrew wrote:
>> "Blazer Fan Dan" <BlazerFanDan.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1144185140.304378.276830@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>>> he defaulted on this loan because he was playing in essence 15
>>> million a year.
>>>
>>> if the loan turned out to be paid back at a lot less than that, he'd
>>> be making more money.
>>>
>>> plus, if he's the guaranteer, he'd have to put up collatoral, iirc.
>>>
>>
>> Nah, that's why these guys create a new corporation for anything they
>> do. When the going gets tough, they just declare bankruptcy & fold
>> the tents.
>
> The article I read said that Allen would basically have to co-sign the
> loan as a personal responsibility.
>

IMO, that makes it highly unlikely he'll do it, even if given the chance.

Go Blazers !
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mmasw

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Since: May 25, 2007
Posts: 158



(Msg. 13) Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:22 am
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On 4 Apr 2006 22:10:04 -0700, "Blazer Fan Dan"
<BlazerFanDan.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>mmasw wrote:
>> On 4 Apr 2006 12:40:50 -0700, "Blazer Fan Dan"
>> <BlazerFanDan.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >nope. the city can get a loan from the US government, at a much better
>> >interest rate than anyone else can, and the team could pay back the
>> >city.
>>
>>
>> first....I'm not sure that's true at all, and I seriously doubt they
>> could for the purposes of bailing out one of the word's richest men
>> and a basketball team
>
>cities could get loans to do whatever the hell they want. the
>government doesn't care, they make money on the deal.

as usual, you don't supply any proof of your ridiculous contentions.
The federal government is 8 trillion dollars in debt so it's safe to
assume the conditions where they make money on any deal are rare
indeed. You said "much better interest rate"....please specify the
exact interest rate the city can get from the fed, how the fed will
finance it and at what interest rate , and what program or legislation
congress has approved that will allow federal money to be earmarked
fro an NBA franchise

your contention that a city can get money from the fed and do
"whatever the hell they want" is flat-out bullshit
>
>>
>> second....if they were able to get a "below market" loan from the fed
>> gov that means federal taxpayers would be footing the bill
>
>not really. personal guaranteer (sp) implies he (paul allen) guarantees
>the bill is paid by him. thats a legal binding issue, and not something
>he can skirt.

do you know how a loan works??? if the the federal governmant loans
out money it doesn't have...and it doesn't have a surplus in case you
haven't noticed....then it has to issue bonds to cover the loan. If it
issues a bond at 4.68% and then "loans" the proceeds at 4.5% it looses
money. It's simple math. It doesn't matter one bit how the loan is
collateralized.

As to "skirting a legal issue", you haven't been paying attention to
how the bankruptcy laws have been changed. Allen could "skirt" a
personal guarantee quicker then you can say something dumb.
>
>> third...paul allen could get a loan...he certainly has assets for
>> collateral. He doesn't want a loan, he wants the city to give him
>> money and bail him out of his self-created mess
>
>sure he can get a loan, but the city has benefitted FAR more than him,
>and he was willing to do something that was even more benefitticial to
>the city than the team.

bullshit. You keep believeing all the propoganda that comes out of
blazer management and stern's office. I don't. Maybe the city look at
the offer and actually said no dice-this sucks.
>
>So while it's true he could get a loan, thats like saying that I can
>get a loan for 15K at 5%, I shouldn't try to get one at 2% through a
>bank because I'm the one who borrowed money to get a car.

Of course allen is going to try and find the most advantageous course
for him...that's why he's planning on moving the team.

But the city doesn't have to act as his financial stooge...and they
won't.

And you have as yet explained how the taxpayers....whether local or
federal...don't foot the bill if they give allen a below market loan
>
>
>> fourth...the city isn't gonna help paul allen. Their pretense of
>> "listening" is as sincere as david stern's negotiating effort.
>
>yep, and the team is moving too. despite facts and logic.

LOL....you are the last person in this newsgroup that should offer an
opinion and claim it is backed by facts and logic
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Blazer Fan Dan

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Since: Jun 09, 2005
Posts: 312



(Msg. 14) Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:17 am
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mmasw wrote:
> On 4 Apr 2006 22:10:04 -0700, "Blazer Fan Dan"
> <BlazerFanDan DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >mmasw wrote:
> >> On 4 Apr 2006 12:40:50 -0700, "Blazer Fan Dan"
> >> <BlazerFanDan DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >nope. the city can get a loan from the US government, at a much better
> >> >interest rate than anyone else can, and the team could pay back the
> >> >city.
> >>
> >>
> >> first....I'm not sure that's true at all, and I seriously doubt they
> >> could for the purposes of bailing out one of the word's richest men
> >> and a basketball team
> >
> >cities could get loans to do whatever the hell they want. the
> >government doesn't care, they make money on the deal.
>
> as usual, you don't supply any proof of your ridiculous contentions.
> The federal government is 8 trillion dollars in debt so it's safe to
> assume the conditions where they make money on any deal are rare
> indeed. You said "much better interest rate"....please specify the
> exact interest rate the city can get from the fed, how the fed will
> finance it and at what interest rate , and what program or legislation
> congress has approved that will allow federal money to be earmarked
> fro an NBA franchise
>

there was an article in the oregonian recently. try reading it.


>
> do you know how a loan works??? if the the federal governmant loans
> out money it doesn't have...and it doesn't have a surplus in case you
> haven't noticed....then it has to issue bonds to cover the loan. If it
> issues a bond at 4.68% and then "loans" the proceeds at 4.5% it looses
> money. It's simple math. It doesn't matter one bit how the loan is
> collateralized.

do you not understand how the government works? they don't need money
to give loans. Otherwise they'd never be able to give money out.


> As to "skirting a legal issue", you haven't been paying attention to
> how the bankruptcy laws have been changed. Allen could "skirt" a
> personal guarantee quicker then you can say something dumb.
> >
> >> third...paul allen could get a loan...he certainly has assets for
> >> collateral. He doesn't want a loan, he wants the city to give him
> >> money and bail him out of his self-created mess
> >
> >sure he can get a loan, but the city has benefitted FAR more than him,
> >and he was willing to do something that was even more benefitticial to
> >the city than the team.
>
> bullshit. You keep believeing all the propoganda that comes out of
> blazer management and stern's office. I don't. Maybe the city look at
> the offer and actually said no dice-this sucks.
> >
> >So while it's true he could get a loan, thats like saying that I can
> >get a loan for 15K at 5%, I shouldn't try to get one at 2% through a
> >bank because I'm the one who borrowed money to get a car.
>
> Of course allen is going to try and find the most advantageous course
> for him...that's why he's planning on moving the team.
>
> But the city doesn't have to act as his financial stooge...and they
> won't.
>
> And you have as yet explained how the taxpayers....whether local or
> federal...don't foot the bill if they give allen a below market loan
> >
> >
> >> fourth...the city isn't gonna help paul allen. Their pretense of
> >> "listening" is as sincere as david stern's negotiating effort.
> >
> >yep, and the team is moving too. despite facts and logic.
>
> LOL....you are the last person in this newsgroup that should offer an
> opinion and claim it is backed by facts and logic

go read a paper.
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Terraholm

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Since: Apr 05, 2006
Posts: 5



(Msg. 15) Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:10 pm
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Blazer Fan Dan wrote:
> he defaulted on this loan because he was playing in essence 15 million
> a year.

Dear Dan...he was paying 50 mil in luxury taxes too...

He owes 40 million more now than when he signed the contracts, so the 15 million did not cover the
interest. If he had paid down the principle back when the blazers were making a lot of money the
first few years in the RG instead of bleeding it he would not have that problem...even if you ignore
the fact he could have written a check at any time at that time for the full amount...
The bad contract with the arena was originally profit for his own company operating the arena making
money off his other company...it only became a terrible contract for Allen when he was no longer
making the profit he was paying himself...

Pay off the arena and he saved the 15+ mil in interest and kept all of the revinue from the arena
not just from the Blazers but other events.
The RG under the new management is making money again, all of which could have been Allen's
balancing out any losses continuing on the blazers.



>
> if the loan turned out to be paid back at a lot less than that, he'd
> be making more money.


Now why could he not find re-financing? Why could he not have bought out the contract himself?

Would the Franchise and Arena have been valued for a lot more if he had fixed the mess instead of
dumping the RG? Which worked better if the plan was to sell?

>
> plus, if he's the guaranteer, he'd have to put up collatoral, iirc.

The RG is collateral. Plus he has other land right there, 3 1/2 acres, and he would have to
personally co-sign the loan.

But he has not asked for the city to re-finance the arena...he has not offered any actual proposals
from the reports....now why is that? Because he does not really want the arena back?

He may want a tax bail-out and figured he could get the city or state to use a soft tax on hotels
etc. That is what Washington did to build his football stadium... But that money from that source is
designated by law to go elsewhere in Oregon and likely his lawyers knew that.



--
Laurel T
You can tell a gelding,
you can ask a mare,
but you must discuss it with a stallion.
-unknown horseman
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