Payton "I ain't coming back"

"Miguel M" <PoetUNoet.RemoveThis@iwon.com> wrote in message
news:10f813qbrckaj0d@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
> Nexus wrote:
> >>"s_knight8" <s_knight8nospam.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > news:cd0scp$suq@dispatch.concentric.net...
> >
> >
http://www.pe.com/sports/lakers/notebooks/PE_Sports_Local_lakers_notebook_13
> >
> >>.584ff.html
> >>
> >>Payton said Monday that if O'Neal indeed is traded to the Heat he might
> >
> > ask
> >
> >>the Lakers to let him go.
> >>
> >>"If they don't sign Karl back, then I'll probably get up out of here,"
> >>Payton said by phone. "They're going to buy me out or trade me, or
> >>something. If Karl don't come back, I ain't coming back."
> >>
> >>"I mean, what team are they going to put on the floor?" Payton asked.
> >>
> >>"Dude (O'Neal) is gone now," Payton said. "That's why I came out here.
He
> >>left. He did that to us. I really ain't tripping off of that. But it
ain't
> >>going to be like last year when I can't play basketball. It's going to
be
> >
> > a
> >
> >>lot different."
> >
> >
> > It is amazing to me how much my opinion of Payton has dropped since he
> > became a Laker. And I am not only talking about his defensive skills or
lack
> > of. This guy is a constant whinefest and should be traded ASAP. If I
have to
> > put up with another season watching his pouting face and listening to
his
> > incessant bitching...
>
> The upside is that he still has some pretty good trade value.

Unless the Lakers are willing to take little in return or another bad
contract then I don't see why anyone would want him. No one was going to pay
him what the Lakers were going to.
>
 >> Stay informed about: Payton "I ain't coming back" 

Gary Collard <garycollard.RemoveThis@netscape.net> wrote:
>He may be a dick, but is there seriously anyone who doesn't think he's a
>HOFer? He's one of the top few point guards in the history of the game.

Offensively, are his numbers really any better than KJ, who is
almost never thought of as a HOFer?

--
Weinstein: Uh, a dog? Isn't that a tad predictable?
Lady: In your dreams. We're talking the original dog from hell.
Oakley: You mean Cerberus?
-- "The Itchy & Scratchy & Poochie Show"
 >> Stay informed about: Payton "I ain't coming back" 

Andrew Ryan Chang wrote:

> Gary Collard <garycollard.RemoveThis@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>>He may be a dick, but is there seriously anyone who doesn't think he's a
>>HOFer? He's one of the top few point guards in the history of the game.
>
>
> Offensively, are his numbers really any better than KJ, who is
> almost never thought of as a HOFer?

Numbers are just one aspect. Then there's special awards and
recognition, longevity, etc.
 >> Stay informed about: Payton "I ain't coming back" 

Aeropo864 wrote:

> "Miguel M" <PoetUNoet.RemoveThis@iwon.com> wrote in message
> news:10f813qbrckaj0d@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>
>>Nexus wrote:
>>
>>>>"s_knight8" <s_knight8nospam.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>>news:cd0scp$suq@dispatch.concentric.net...
>>>
>>>
>
> http://www.pe.com/sports/lakers/notebooks/PE_Sports_Local_lakers_notebook_13
>
>>>>.584ff.html
>>>>
>>>>Payton said Monday that if O'Neal indeed is traded to the Heat he might
>>>
>>>ask
>>>
>>>
>>>>the Lakers to let him go.
>>>>
>>>>"If they don't sign Karl back, then I'll probably get up out of here,"
>>>>Payton said by phone. "They're going to buy me out or trade me, or
>>>>something. If Karl don't come back, I ain't coming back."
>>>>
>>>>"I mean, what team are they going to put on the floor?" Payton asked.
>>>>
>>>>"Dude (O'Neal) is gone now," Payton said. "That's why I came out here.
>
> He
>
>>>>left. He did that to us. I really ain't tripping off of that. But it
>
> ain't
>
>>>>going to be like last year when I can't play basketball. It's going to
>
> be
>
>>>a
>>>
>>>
>>>>lot different."
>>>
>>>
>>>It is amazing to me how much my opinion of Payton has dropped since he
>>>became a Laker. And I am not only talking about his defensive skills or
>
> lack
>
>>>of. This guy is a constant whinefest and should be traded ASAP. If I
>
> have to
>
>>>put up with another season watching his pouting face and listening to
>
> his
>
>>>incessant bitching...
>>
>>The upside is that he still has some pretty good trade value.
>
>
> Unless the Lakers are willing to take little in return or another bad
> contract then I don't see why anyone would want him. No one was going to pay
> him what the Lakers were going to.

His contract has trade value in that it is in its final season.
 >> Stay informed about: Payton "I ain't coming back" 

Andrew Ryan Chang wrote:
>
> Gary Collard <garycollard.RemoveThis@netscape.net> wrote:
> >He may be a dick, but is there seriously anyone who doesn't think he's a
> >HOFer? He's one of the top few point guards in the history of the game.
>
> Offensively, are his numbers really any better than KJ, who is
> almost never thought of as a HOFer?

They are at least comparable, but Payton's has done it for 350 more games
already, so longevity alone is a huge difference. Add in that Payton was
one of the greatest ever defensive players at his position while KJ was a
poor defender and they don't look very close to me.

FWIW Payton's HOF Monitor score is 167, KJ's is 121 (135 likely HOFer).

--
Gary Collard
SABR-L Moderator
gmcollard.RemoveThis@yahoo.com

"I have no idea if Bryant is guilty or innocent, but if he is willing
to be a Clipper, his lawyers could argue temporary insanity."
-- Mike Downey
 >> Stay informed about: Payton "I ain't coming back" 

agakhan wrote:
>
> On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 15:17:50 GMT, Gary Collard
> <garycollard DeleteThis @netscape.net> wrote:
>
> >Miguel M wrote:
> >>
> >> Lamar Odom has been openly enthusiastic about not just playing for the
> >> Lakers, but specifically playing with Kobe.
> >
> >Well yeah, his good dope connections are in LA.
>
> plus a hefty little lump sum trade kicker can't hurt either.

Dope money

--
Gary Collard
SABR-L Moderator
gmcollard DeleteThis @yahoo.com

"I have no idea if Bryant is guilty or innocent, but if he is willing
to be a Clipper, his lawyers could argue temporary insanity."
-- Mike Downey
 >> Stay informed about: Payton "I ain't coming back" 

In article <10fdakkg20nopae.DeleteThis@corp.supernews.com>, Miguel M <PoetUNoet.DeleteThis@iwon.com> wrote:
>
>
>Andrew Ryan Chang wrote:
>
>> Gary Collard <garycollard.DeleteThis@netscape.net> wrote:
>>
>>>He may be a dick, but is there seriously anyone who doesn't think he's a
>>>HOFer? He's one of the top few point guards in the history of the game.
>>
>>
>> Offensively, are his numbers really any better than KJ, who is
>> almost never thought of as a HOFer?
>
> Numbers are just one aspect. Then there's special awards and
>recognition, longevity, etc.
>
The only place for "special awards" is the Special Olympics.
 >> Stay informed about: Payton "I ain't coming back" 

GMAN wrote:

> In article <10fdakkg20nopae DeleteThis @corp.supernews.com>, Miguel M <PoetUNoet DeleteThis @iwon.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Andrew Ryan Chang wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Gary Collard <garycollard DeleteThis @netscape.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>He may be a dick, but is there seriously anyone who doesn't think he's a
>>>>HOFer? He's one of the top few point guards in the history of the game.
>>>
>>>
>>> Offensively, are his numbers really any better than KJ, who is
>>>almost never thought of as a HOFer?
>>
>> Numbers are just one aspect. Then there's special awards and
>>recognition, longevity, etc.
>>
>
> The only place for "special awards" is the Special Olympics.

Actually, I think winning Defensive Player of the Year has a pretty
significant place in earning the Hall of Fame. Same with All-NBA's,
All-D's, even All-Stars, though less so. You think winning an MVP award
has no bearing on Hall of Fame selection?
 >> Stay informed about: Payton "I ain't coming back" 

> FWIW Payton's HOF Monitor score is 167, KJ's is 121 (135 likely HOFer).

Where are you getting this from?
 >> Stay informed about: Payton "I ain't coming back" 

"Gandalfe" <a.RemoveThis@b.c> wrote in message news:inKJc.87609$MB3.27361@attbi_s04...
> > FWIW Payton's HOF Monitor score is 167, KJ's is 121 (135 likely HOFer).
>
> Where are you getting this from?

http://www.basketballreference.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=PAYTOGA01

http://www.basketballreference.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=JOHNSKE01
 >> Stay informed about: Payton "I ain't coming back" 

"Miguel M" <PoetUNoet.DeleteThis@iwon.com> wrote in message
news:10ff7tl623tga2d@corp.supernews.com...
> Actually, I think winning Defensive Player of the Year has a pretty
> significant place in earning the Hall of Fame. Same with All-NBA's,
> All-D's, even All-Stars, though less so. You think winning an MVP award
> has no bearing on Hall of Fame selection?

Every player who has won an MVP award and is eligible for induction is in
the HoF.
 >> Stay informed about: Payton "I ain't coming back" 

In article <10ff7tl623tga2d DeleteThis @corp.supernews.com>, Miguel M <PoetUNoet DeleteThis @iwon.com> wrote:
>
>
>GMAN wrote:
>
>> In article <10fdakkg20nopae DeleteThis @corp.supernews.com>, Miguel M
> <PoetUNoet DeleteThis @iwon.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Andrew Ryan Chang wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Gary Collard <garycollard DeleteThis @netscape.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>He may be a dick, but is there seriously anyone who doesn't think he's a
>>>>>HOFer? He's one of the top few point guards in the history of the game.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Offensively, are his numbers really any better than KJ, who is
>>>>almost never thought of as a HOFer?
>>>
>>> Numbers are just one aspect. Then there's special awards and
>>>recognition, longevity, etc.
>>>
>>
>> The only place for "special awards" is the Special Olympics.
>
> Actually, I think winning Defensive Player of the Year has a pretty
>significant place in earning the Hall of Fame. Same with All-NBA's,
>All-D's, even All-Stars, though less so. You think winning an MVP award
>has no bearing on Hall of Fame selection?
>
I was just making a bad joke, I dont care either way. Yes i do think he is
qualified as a HOF'er , but maybe not a top 50 of all timer.
 >> Stay informed about: Payton "I ain't coming back"