Payton predicted Kobe/Malone rift

Fred wrote:

> s_knight8" <s_knight8nospam DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:cpn0s5$m03@dispatch.concentric.net...
>
>>http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sonics/2002118725_soni14.html
>>
>>Several thousand miles away from his new home in Boston, Gary Payton could
>>see the events unfolding before they happened and predicted Kobe Bryant
>>would alienate the one person who publicly supported him through his rape
>>trial, basketball tribulations and off-court troubles.
>>
>>"The way things are going there right now, I'm not sure I could have
>>played
>>with those guys this year," Payton said at the time. "And it's not just
>>him.
>>Kobe is a great player, but everything is different, and I didn't sign
>>there
>>for that.
>>
>>"I went there to win a championship. Same with Karl (Malone). Now all of
>>that is changed. It's about him. It's all about him. And you watch: Karl
>>won't stand for that.
>>
>>"You'll give up a part of who you are, sacrifice your game, if you think
>>you're winning (a championship)," Payton said. "You ain't doing that just
>>so
>>someone can do this and that and run the whole damn show. Nah, that ain't
>>happening."
>
>
> Says the guy who has zero rings to the guy who has three.

Doesn't make him any less correct. And those 3 rings exist
only because of a center named Shaq and a coach named Phil.
 >> Stay informed about: Payton predicted Kobe/Malone rift 

Chainsaw wrote:

>
>
> Fred wrote:
>
>> s_knight8" <s_knight8nospam.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:cpn0s5$m03@dispatch.concentric.net...
>>
>>> http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sonics/2002118725_soni14.html
>>>
>>> Several thousand miles away from his new home in Boston, Gary Payton
>>> could
>>> see the events unfolding before they happened and predicted Kobe Bryant
>>> would alienate the one person who publicly supported him through his
>>> rape
>>> trial, basketball tribulations and off-court troubles.
>>>
>>> "The way things are going there right now, I'm not sure I could have
>>> played
>>> with those guys this year," Payton said at the time. "And it's not
>>> just him.
>>> Kobe is a great player, but everything is different, and I didn't
>>> sign there
>>> for that.
>>>
>>> "I went there to win a championship. Same with Karl (Malone). Now all of
>>> that is changed. It's about him. It's all about him. And you watch: Karl
>>> won't stand for that.
>>>
>>> "You'll give up a part of who you are, sacrifice your game, if you think
>>> you're winning (a championship)," Payton said. "You ain't doing that
>>> just so
>>> someone can do this and that and run the whole damn show. Nah, that
>>> ain't
>>> happening."
>>
>>
>>
>> Says the guy who has zero rings to the guy who has three.
>
>
> Doesn't make him any less correct. And those 3 rings exist
> only because of a center named Shaq and a coach named Phil.

Kobe had more than a little bit to do with it. They wouldn't have been
won without him. (Maybe one, at most.)
 >> Stay informed about: Payton predicted Kobe/Malone rift 

Fred wrote:

> "Kevin James Hansen" <kjhanz.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:e6Evd.42710$6q2.37748@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>
>>"Fred" <freeloosedirt.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:wSDvd.59604$QJ3.4690@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>>Snip
>>
>>
>>>>"You'll give up a part of who you are, sacrifice your game, if you think
>>>>you're winning (a championship)," Payton said. "You ain't doing that
>>>>just so
>>>>someone can do this and that and run the whole damn show. Nah, that
>>>>ain't
>>>>happening."
>>>
>>>Says the guy who has zero rings to the guy who has three.
>>
>>I dont really think thats fair, Shaq and Kobe have 3 rings, Shaq may well
>>have a shot to take his third team to the finals. It remains to be seen if
>>Kobe will ever get there again.
>>KjH
>
>
> My guess is that Kobe wins more rings, that Shaq retires without another
> one, and that we both agree that Payton will never ever play on a
> championship team.

Kobe seems much too concerned with important things like being
The Man to worry about stupid things like Rings.
 >> Stay informed about: Payton predicted Kobe/Malone rift 

"Chainsaw" <i'm@mywitsend.net> wrote in message
news:5fLvd.42853$6q2.40090@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
> Fred wrote:
>
>> s_knight8" <s_knight8nospam.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:cpn0s5$m03@dispatch.concentric.net...
>>
>>>http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sonics/2002118725_soni14.html
>>>
>>>Several thousand miles away from his new home in Boston, Gary Payton
>>>could
>>>see the events unfolding before they happened and predicted Kobe Bryant
>>>would alienate the one person who publicly supported him through his rape
>>>trial, basketball tribulations and off-court troubles.
>>>
>>>"The way things are going there right now, I'm not sure I could have
>>>played
>>>with those guys this year," Payton said at the time. "And it's not just
>>>him.
>>>Kobe is a great player, but everything is different, and I didn't sign
>>>there
>>>for that.
>>>
>>>"I went there to win a championship. Same with Karl (Malone). Now all of
>>>that is changed. It's about him. It's all about him. And you watch: Karl
>>>won't stand for that.
>>>
>>>"You'll give up a part of who you are, sacrifice your game, if you think
>>>you're winning (a championship)," Payton said. "You ain't doing that just
>>>so
>>>someone can do this and that and run the whole damn show. Nah, that ain't
>>>happening."
>>
>>
>> Says the guy who has zero rings to the guy who has three.
>
> Doesn't make him any less correct. And those 3 rings exist
> only because of a center named Shaq and a coach named Phil.

Absolutely.

Jane
 >> Stay informed about: Payton predicted Kobe/Malone rift 

Alson Wong wrote:
> "Chris Hafner" <hafner RemoveThis @peoplepc.com> wrote in message
> news:328j3sF3fso7bU1@individual.net...
> > And meanwhile, Steve Kerr trumps them all. Since context doesn't
matter at
> > all, only total ring count, he's the greatest of all time!
>
> Kerr's still six rings shy of Bill Russell.

Right - and Russell isn't alone in having more than Kerr. My
illustrative hyperbole probably would've been better-served had I said:

---

Since context doesn't matter at all, only total ring count, Kerr is not
only one of the greatest of all time, his opinion on what it takes to
win championships should be considered above Kobe's or Shaq's.

---

An actual argument could be made that Russell *is* the greatest of all
time, which doesn't make him useful for illustrating the absurdity of
the point.

:-)

Cheers,
Chris Hafner
 >> Stay informed about: Payton predicted Kobe/Malone rift 

>My guess is that Kobe wins more rings

This has to be the most naive thing I've read in this NG. Kobe will
NEVER win another ring unless he is the sidekick to great player. Look
at the logic:

Shaq w/ Hardaway = goes to NBA Finals
Shaq w/ Kobe = wins rings

Hardaway w/o Shaq = still good player, but will never win a ring as #1
player on team
Kobe w/o Shaq = ditto.
 >> Stay informed about: Payton predicted Kobe/Malone rift 

Red Schism wrote:

>>My guess is that Kobe wins more rings
>
>
> This has to be the most naive thing I've read in this NG. Kobe will
> NEVER win another ring unless he is the sidekick to great player.

Absolutely correctamundo.

Look
> at the logic:
>
> Shaq w/ Hardaway = goes to NBA Finals
> Shaq w/ Kobe = wins rings
>
> Hardaway w/o Shaq = still good player, but will never win a ring as #1
> player on team
> Kobe w/o Shaq = ditto.

Well I'm not sure if you can compare Hardaway and Kobe
(as this seems implicitly to do).

For me the logic is simply that Kobe's game - as selfish
and undisciplined as it can be - requires the presence of another
star whose floor play, ball distribution, etc, compensate and
balance out Kobe. If Kobe were on the Spurs and they won a ring,
Timmy D would be MVP. If Kobe were a Twolf and they rang, Garnett
would be the MVP. And so on.
 >> Stay informed about: Payton predicted Kobe/Malone rift 

Chris Hafner wrote:
>
> "Fred" <freeloosedirt DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:MeEvd.33837$zx1.23618@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > "Kevin James Hansen" <kjhanz DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:e6Evd.42710$6q2.37748@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> > >
> > > "Fred" <freeloosedirt DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:wSDvd.59604$QJ3.4690@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> > >>
> > > Snip
> > >
> > >>> "You'll give up a part of who you are, sacrifice your game, if you
> think
> > >>> you're winning (a championship)," Payton said. "You ain't doing that
> > >>> just so
> > >>> someone can do this and that and run the whole damn show. Nah, that
> > >>> ain't
> > >>> happening."
> > >>
> > >> Says the guy who has zero rings to the guy who has three.
>
> Fred, do you disagree with what he's saying?
>
> > > I dont really think thats fair, Shaq and Kobe have 3 rings, Shaq may
> well
> > > have a shot to take his third team to the finals. It remains to be seen
> if
> > > Kobe will ever get there again.
> > > KjH
> >
> > My guess is that Kobe wins more rings, that Shaq retires without another
> > one, and that we both agree that Payton will never ever play on a
> > championship team.
>
> And meanwhile, Steve Kerr trumps them all. Since context doesn't matter at
> all, only total ring count, he's the greatest of all time!

K.C. Jones had 8 in 9 years, plus coaching.

--
Gary Collard
SABR-L Moderator
gmcollard DeleteThis @yahoo.com

"You know who may run for the Democrats in 2008? Hillary Clinton.
Her husband is so excited that he is already interviewing White
House interns." -- David Letterman
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