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The Problem With The Blazers Is.....

 
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toad

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Since: Oct 31, 2003
Posts: 140



(Msg. 31) Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 7:34 am
Post subject: Re: The Problem With The Blazers Is..... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>sports>basketball>nba>port-blazers (more info?)

"Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:vulqmlaqiella4@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "toad" <papatoad.DeleteThis@mrstoad.com> wrote in message
> news:wrxGb.23383$NZ1.4468@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
>
> > Zach is playing PF ahead of Sheed because he's bigger, he can throw his
> > weight around, and it's more advantageous for portland to utilize him at
> PF
> > while keeping Sheed at SF.
>
> Zach is starting ahead of 'Sheed at PF because he is a one dimensional
> player that only fits that position. To have them both start the
versatile
> player that *can* play 3 positions is the one that gave up the position.
If
> 'Sheed could not play 3 positions Zach would still be coming off the bench
> behind 'Sheed as the better all around player.
> That there is a log jam at PF does not turn SF into 'Sheed's best or
> preferred position and he is still matched up against the PFs often on
> defense.

all you did is enhance what I said: Zach is playing PF ahead of Sheed
because he's bigger, he can throw his weight around, and it's more
advantageous for portland to utilize him at PF while keeping Sheed at SF.

and my main point is that Sheed is our SF. He's going to remain our SF.
He's adapting to the role. I think eventually Sheed may be defined as a SF
only.

what's the point of this discussion?

i'm not wrong... Sheed is the SF. you're not wrong either in the fact that
Sheed CAN play PF.

i dunno what the point of all this is. beating an irrelevant, dead horse.

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Terraholm

External


Since: Aug 26, 2004
Posts: 427



(Msg. 32) Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 8:42 am
Post subject: Re: The Problem With The Blazers Is..... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"toad" <papatoad.DeleteThis@mrstoad.com> wrote in message
news:1wRGb.27833$NZ1.8273@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
> "Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:vulqmlaqiella4@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > "toad" <papatoad.DeleteThis@mrstoad.com> wrote in message
> > news:wrxGb.23383$NZ1.4468@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
> >
> > > Zach is playing PF ahead of Sheed because he's bigger, he can throw
his
> > > weight around, and it's more advantageous for portland to utilize him
at
> > PF
> > > while keeping Sheed at SF.
> >
> > Zach is starting ahead of 'Sheed at PF because he is a one dimensional
> > player that only fits that position. To have them both start the
> versatile
> > player that *can* play 3 positions is the one that gave up the position.
> If
> > 'Sheed could not play 3 positions Zach would still be coming off the
bench
> > behind 'Sheed as the better all around player.
> > That there is a log jam at PF does not turn SF into 'Sheed's best or
> > preferred position and he is still matched up against the PFs often on
> > defense.
>
> all you did is enhance what I said: Zach is playing PF ahead of Sheed
> because he's bigger, he can throw his weight around, and it's more
> advantageous for portland to utilize him at PF while keeping Sheed at SF.
>
> and my main point is that Sheed is our SF. He's going to remain our SF.

Sure. Just not by choice of that being his best position. And you have been
claiming he was playing SF for several years. So what position was Bonzi
playing last year and Pippen the years before that? Who was guarding the
other PFs?

> He's adapting to the role. I think eventually Sheed may be defined as a
SF
> only.

Next year he may well be starting at PF again. Just not in Portland....

>
> what's the point of this discussion?

Correcting your little 'fact' you are throwing out.

>
> i'm not wrong... Sheed is the SF. you're not wrong either in the fact
that
> Sheed CAN play PF.

You are wrong. That is backwards. 'Sheed is a PF that can play SF or center.
He matches up defensively against PFs best. Ask the coaches, ask him....he
is giving it another try, but previously he asked to come off the bench
instead of start at SF.

Which was my original point, it is leadership to sacrafice his best position
for the good of the team. Most top players would be whining about it.

>
> i dunno what the point of all this is. beating an irrelevant, dead horse.

This IS usenet....


--
Laurel T
"The Isaiah Rider camp,has only one camper in it."
David Kahn, Pacers GM,

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Terraholm

External


Since: Aug 26, 2004
Posts: 427



(Msg. 33) Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 9:11 am
Post subject: Re: The Problem With The Blazers Is..... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"YO ! ! ! MACK DADDY ! ! !" <platedropper DeleteThis @webtv.net> wrote in message
news:705-3FEBD826-827@storefull-2312.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> I'm not sure of the source, but I have heard that even though Zachs
> stats might look better at this time Sheed is still the better overall
> player. When they put out the plus minus stats Sheed is better and the
> team does better when he is on the court. Zach doesnt necessarily make
> the team better.
>


'Sheed tends to make the players around him better. A lot of it does not
show up on stats at all, calling the defense and his own defense since he is
the best individual defender on the team.
When you heard it was likely earlier in the month on the plus/minus
differential on/off the floor 'Sheed was way ahead with a plus for on court
and minus when her was off. Difference on/off he was plus about 12 pts and
Zach had a small minus differential.
Right now they both have minuses on and off the court because the whole team
is being outscored overall.. But the difference between having them on the
floor and off, Zach is at plus 7.7 on the floor and 'Sheed plus 5.8 that the
team is better than with them on the bench.
But those stats too have problems, right now the best +s per 48 are Woods,
Dickens and Stepania... =)


--
Laurel T
"When asked if he was a basketball player:
"No I clean giraffe ears."
Elvin Hayes
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YO ! ! ! MACK DADDY ! ! !

External


Since: Dec 24, 2003
Posts: 90



(Msg. 34) Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 10:10 pm
Post subject: Re: The Problem With The Blazers Is..... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I think the point of this conversation is that players don't always fit
into nice little categories with definitive titles for definitive
positions. If they did, the NBA could paint stripes on the floor to
show where each player was supposed to play. a little box for the point
guard, little box for the shooting guard, little box for the small
forward, little box for the power forward, and a tiny little area under
the hoop for goaltending centers.
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YO ! ! ! MACK DADDY ! ! !

External


Since: Dec 24, 2003
Posts: 90



(Msg. 35) Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 10:14 pm
Post subject: Re: The Problem With The Blazers Is..... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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I think Dale Davis, or Zach Randolph should come off the bench. Not
Rasheed Wallace.
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Terraholm

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Since: Aug 26, 2004
Posts: 427



(Msg. 36) Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2003 5:08 pm
Post subject: Re: The Problem With The Blazers Is..... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"toad" <papatoad DeleteThis @mrstoad.com> wrote in message
news:Wy3Ib.11921$E17.173@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...

> Zach makes the blazers better.

Zach 'the black hole' makes Zach better. He has a ways to go before he makes
the team better.



--
Laurel T
"I told him,'Son, what is it with you. Is it ignorance or apathy?'
He said, 'Coach, I don't know and I don't care."
Frank Layden
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Terraholm

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Since: Aug 26, 2004
Posts: 427



(Msg. 37) Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2003 7:27 pm
Post subject: Re: The Problem With The Blazers Is..... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"toad" <papatoad.TakeThisOut@mrstoad.com> wrote in message
news:s36Ib.10804$f3.1474@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> "Zeb Quinn" <nastygram.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message

>
> I'm not so sure. The teams I've heard of him potentially landing are
Dallas
> and San Antonio. He won't start over Duncan or Antoine Walker at PF.


Walker> 'Sheed? Give me a break. I doubt walker will be there anyway.


--
Laurel T
"I would Flop too if Shaq's elbow was headed at me."
Fox on Vlade
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Terraholm

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Since: Aug 26, 2004
Posts: 427



(Msg. 38) Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2003 8:56 pm
Post subject: Re: The Problem With The Blazers Is..... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Ron Loewy" <rloewy DeleteThis @transport.com> wrote in message
news:Sc7Ib.13144$E17.5025@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
>
> "Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:vv1k3ve85bb311@corp.supernews.com...

> We had this conversation a year ago, when I said I thought they needed to
> rebuild around Zach and you scoffed.

I looked it up, I said I saw him as an allstar but not as a franchise
player. You have me on this one for potential. I still think the jury is out
for fulfillment over time.


--
Laurel T
"Wallace is a riddle wrapped in a mystery,
wrapped in a headband." S.I.
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toad

External


Since: Oct 31, 2003
Posts: 140



(Msg. 39) Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2003 3:08 am
Post subject: Re: The Problem With The Blazers Is..... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:vv1k3ve85bb311@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "toad" <papatoad.DeleteThis@mrstoad.com> wrote in message
> news:Wy3Ib.11921$E17.173@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
>
> > Zach makes the blazers better.
>
> Zach 'the black hole' makes Zach better. He has a ways to go before he
makes
> the team better.


oh please. I suppose you think Tim Duncan makes himself better and not the
guys around him either.

Please laurel, hook me up with your crack dealer and quit supporting tommy
guy's bullshit opinions.

It's scary to think that our MVP this year and our only consistent player
would only be a senior right now had he stayed in school.
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Terraholm

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Since: Aug 26, 2004
Posts: 427



(Msg. 40) Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2003 3:08 am
Post subject: Re: The Problem With The Blazers Is..... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"toad" <papatoad.DeleteThis@mrstoad.com> wrote in message
news:H_5Ib.10780$f3.9986@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>
> "Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:vv1k3ve85bb311@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > "toad" <papatoad.DeleteThis@mrstoad.com> wrote in message
> > news:Wy3Ib.11921$E17.173@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
> >
> > > Zach makes the blazers better.
> >
> > Zach 'the black hole' makes Zach better. He has a ways to go before he
> makes
> > the team better.
>
>
> oh please. I suppose you think Tim Duncan makes himself better and not
the
> guys around him either.

Not at all. But Zach is not Duncan.
Zach has not learned to handle or pass out of double and triple teams, that
he is a great scorer even in those situations is nice, but the scouting
reports are catching up to him. His FGP is falling lately, 48% the last 10
games and 4-12 tonight. Instead of recognizing that colapsing defense has to
be leaving someone wide open, he fights them and runs the clock down. So he
is not yet being always effective against being the focus of the defense.

>
> Please laurel, hook me up with your crack dealer and quit supporting tommy
> guy's bullshit opinions.
>

I am supporting *my* opinion.

> It's scary to think that our MVP this year and our only consistent player
> would only be a senior right now had he stayed in school.

He still has a lot to learn, I am sure he would agree with that.


--
Laurel T
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful."
Lucius Seneca
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toad

External


Since: Oct 31, 2003
Posts: 140



(Msg. 41) Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2003 3:26 am
Post subject: Re: The Problem With The Blazers Is..... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:vuopaoj09o6c44@corp.supernews.com...
>
> You are wrong. That is backwards. 'Sheed is a PF that can play SF or
center.
> He matches up defensively against PFs best. Ask the coaches, ask him....he
> is giving it another try, but previously he asked to come off the bench
> instead of start at SF.

I swear to that holy god in the sky that you are the most stubborn person
I've ever spoke to. You beat a dead horse just to say, I'm right, you're
wrong, I told you so.

Here's the bottom line. Sheed is a swingman who is playing SF now.
Everyone agree's he can play C/PF/SF. speaking from terms of his true
position, sure, you can call him a PF, but many will agree that he's just as
pure of a SF. he's adapting to the role great. Maybe he'll never play PF
again. At what point do you say he's a SF who can play PF? I guess
longevity will answer that. I call him a SF now. That's what he's playing,
that's what he is.

I suppose you think Allen Iverson's a PG? It's not about what you can do,
it's what about you DO do. I suppose you think LeBron James is a SF. I
suppose you think Tim Duncan's a C. It's all academic.


> > i dunno what the point of all this is. beating an irrelevant, dead
horse.
>
> This IS usenet....

thanks for the reminder mom =)
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Terraholm

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Since: Aug 26, 2004
Posts: 427



(Msg. 42) Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2003 3:26 am
Post subject: Re: The Problem With The Blazers Is..... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"toad" <papatoad.RemoveThis@mrstoad.com> wrote in message
news:nf6Ib.10842$f3.1995@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> "Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:vuopaoj09o6c44@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > You are wrong. That is backwards. 'Sheed is a PF that can play SF or
> center.
> > He matches up defensively against PFs best. Ask the coaches, ask
him....he
> > is giving it another try, but previously he asked to come off the bench
> > instead of start at SF.
>
> I swear to that holy god in the sky that you are the most stubborn person
> I've ever spoke to.

Thanks!

You beat a dead horse just to say, I'm right, you're
> wrong, I told you so.
>
> Here's the bottom line. Sheed is a swingman

Swing is normally used for SG/SF...

>who is playing SF now.
> Everyone agree's he can play C/PF/SF. speaking from terms of his true
> position, sure, you can call him a PF, but many will agree that he's just
as
> pure of a SF.

No. He can not guard them.

he's adapting to the role great. Maybe he'll never play PF
> again. At what point do you say he's a SF who can play PF?

When he is as quick as Shawn Marion. =)

>I guess
> longevity will answer that. I call him a SF now. That's what he's
playing,
> that's what he is.

Fine he is a center. That is what he played tonight.

>
> I suppose you think Allen Iverson's a PG? It's not about what you can do,
> it's what about you DO do.

Ivy is a SG in a PGs body. Same with Damon. Who do they guard? Damon plays
off the ball this season but guards the 1s, McInnis is listed as starting at
the 2 but runs the offense much of the time and brings the ball up.

> I suppose you think LeBron James is a SF. I
> suppose you think Tim Duncan's a C. It's all academic.
>

Yes. They have a best position. Wallace's is PF for the matchups.

>
> > > i dunno what the point of all this is. beating an irrelevant, dead
> horse.
> >
> > This IS usenet....
>
> thanks for the reminder mom =)

you owe bozak a nickel....=)


--
Laurel T
"We have a team that shoots very well
outside. Unfortunately, all of our games
are played inside."
Unknown coach
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YO ! ! ! MACK DADDY ! ! !

External


Since: Dec 24, 2003
Posts: 90



(Msg. 43) Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2003 3:26 am
Post subject: Re: The Problem With The Blazers Is..... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I think Lebron James is a shooting guard or small forward. He is a
swingman. He can play the point, but really, I think the team could do
better with him at small forward, and get a real point guard.
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toad

External


Since: Oct 31, 2003
Posts: 140



(Msg. 44) Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2003 3:27 am
Post subject: Re: The Problem With The Blazers Is..... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"YO ! ! ! MACK DADDY ! ! !" <platedropper DeleteThis @webtv.net> wrote in message
news:8275-3FEFC567-113@storefull-2314.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> I think the point of this conversation is that players don't always fit
> into nice little categories with definitive titles for definitive
> positions. If they did, the NBA could paint stripes on the floor to
> show where each player was supposed to play. a little box for the point
> guard, little box for the shooting guard, little box for the small
> forward, little box for the power forward, and a tiny little area under
> the hoop for goaltending centers.

that's what coaches are for. lol
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toad

External


Since: Oct 31, 2003
Posts: 140



(Msg. 45) Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2003 3:46 am
Post subject: Re: The Problem With The Blazers Is..... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:vv1roup7fbsa64@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "toad" <papatoad DeleteThis @mrstoad.com> wrote in message
> news:H_5Ib.10780$f3.9986@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> >
> > "Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:vv1k3ve85bb311@corp.supernews.com...
> > >
> > > "toad" <papatoad DeleteThis @mrstoad.com> wrote in message
> > > news:Wy3Ib.11921$E17.173@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
> > >
> > > > Zach makes the blazers better.
> > >
> > > Zach 'the black hole' makes Zach better. He has a ways to go before he
> > makes
> > > the team better.
> >
> >
> > oh please. I suppose you think Tim Duncan makes himself better and not
> the
> > guys around him either.
>
> Not at all. But Zach is not Duncan.
> Zach has not learned to handle or pass out of double and triple teams,
that
> he is a great scorer even in those situations is nice, but the scouting
> reports are catching up to him. His FGP is falling lately, 48% the last 10
> games and 4-12 tonight. Instead of recognizing that colapsing defense has
to
> be leaving someone wide open, he fights them and runs the clock down. So
he
> is not yet being always effective against being the focus of the defense.
>
> >
> > Please laurel, hook me up with your crack dealer and quit supporting
tommy
> > guy's bullshit opinions.
> >
>
> I am supporting *my* opinion.
>
> > It's scary to think that our MVP this year and our only consistent
player
> > would only be a senior right now had he stayed in school.
>
> He still has a lot to learn, I am sure he would agree with that.

young, learning, getting better. all players have lapses. scouting report,
shmouting report. he's averaging a double double... one of the best scorers
and rebounders in the league. He could go down as better than Moses Malone
and Charles Barkley.

lol. yea, that's funny, but we may not be laughing about that prediction 10
years from now.

He's really coming around fast.
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