Rip the SF...?

Grey Matters wrote:
> Terraholm wrote in
> @mid.individual.net:
>
>> Anita Darling wrote:
>>> He shouldn't be with the second unit...
>>>
>>> The first unit should be contributing and benefitting the way you
>>> suggest the second unit could.
>> Just which starter or other piston is forcing AI to jack up terrible
>> shots instead of passing? Or telling him to let his guy drive by?
>
> Don't you get it -- it's the team that's not backing him up on defense, so
> he looks bad.
>
>> Stuckey assists per 48 minutes 12.2 AI 6.5
>>
>> Why should they be wanting to give him more shots?
>>
>> Last 10 games 4-6
>>
>> AI FGP .392 3s .222
>
> The one saving grace of Iverson's offense since he got older and slower is
> that he still went to the line a lot. That's faded now, too. Bottom line
> is he's playing like he's got a lot more fear on offense and defense.

He is still getting a lot of FTs.
Maybe he is just trying too hard at least at that end of the floor.
His FGP was decent with the nugs unlike his philly years.

He still shows little inclination for effort on D past going for steals
which is fine when it works...
 >> Stay informed about: Rip the SF...? 

On Dec 11, 4:55 pm, Terraholm wrote:
> Grey Matters wrote:

> > The one saving grace of Iverson's offense since he got older and slower is
> > that he still went to the line a lot.  That's faded now, too.  Bottom line
> > is he's playing like he's got a lot more fear on offense and defense.

>   He is still getting a lot of FTs.

He's down significantly, though, on a pace to shoot over 200 fewer
than
last year, and down even more from the days when he was a real
offensive
force. That's about 2 points a game missing, also missing are the
good
things that come from drawing fouls like the extra times that
opponents
face foul trouble, and penalty shots for teammates, etc...

> Maybe he is just trying too hard at least at that end of the floor.
> His FGP was decent with the nugs unlike his philly years.
>
> He still shows little inclination for effort on D past going for steals
> which is fine when it works...

I think the lack of effort on D is matching up with the lack of
effort
getting fouls on drives. I'm not sure whether I would prefer it to
be
a sign of aging or attitude. An attitude can be fixed while age
can't,
but aging isn't contagious while a bad attitude can spread like the
flu.
 >> Stay informed about: Rip the SF...? 

wrote:
> On Dec 11, 4:55 pm, Terraholm wrote:
>> Grey Matters wrote:
>
>>> The one saving grace of Iverson's offense since he got older and slower is
>>> that he still went to the line a lot. That's faded now, too. Bottom line
>>> is he's playing like he's got a lot more fear on offense and defense.
>
>> He is still getting a lot of FTs.
>
> He's down significantly, though, on a pace to shoot over 200 fewer
> than
> last year, and down even more from the days when he was a real
> offensive
> force. That's about 2 points a game missing, also missing are the
> good
> things that come from drawing fouls like the extra times that
> opponents
> face foul trouble, and penalty shots for teammates, etc...
>
>> Maybe he is just trying too hard at least at that end of the floor.
>> His FGP was decent with the nugs unlike his philly years.
>>
>> He still shows little inclination for effort on D past going for steals
>> which is fine when it works...
>
> I think the lack of effort on D is matching up with the lack of
> effort
> getting fouls on drives. I'm not sure whether I would prefer it to
> be
> a sign of aging or attitude. An attitude can be fixed while age
> can't,


Some of it is just not fitting the offense throwing off his game.
But he seems to be getting worse and offering that only as an excuse not
an adjustment for himself.

> but aging isn't contagious while a bad attitude can spread like the
> flu.

Seems to me if they do not turn around soon webbie's 'will be fine in
january' will turn into a total implosion with a little more losing.
 >> Stay informed about: Rip the SF...? 

On Dec 12, 7:25 am, Terraholm wrote:
> wrote:
> > On Dec 11, 4:55 pm, Terraholm wrote:
> >> Grey Matters wrote:
>
> >>> The one saving grace of Iverson's offense since he got older and slower is
> >>> that he still went to the line a lot.  That's faded now, too.  Bottom line
> >>> is he's playing like he's got a lot more fear on offense and defense.
>
> >>   He is still getting a lot of FTs.
>
> > He's down significantly, though, on a pace to shoot over 200 fewer
> > than
> > last year, and down even more from the days when he was a real
> > offensive
> > force.  That's about 2 points a game missing, also missing are the
> > good
> > things that come from drawing fouls like the extra times that
> > opponents
> > face foul trouble, and penalty shots for teammates, etc...
>
> >> Maybe he is just trying too hard at least at that end of the floor.
> >> His FGP was decent with the nugs unlike his philly years.
>
> >> He still shows little inclination for effort on D past going for steals
> >> which is fine when it works...
>
> > I think the lack of effort on D is matching up with the lack of
> > effort
> > getting fouls on drives.  I'm not sure whether I would prefer it to
> > be
> > a sign of aging or attitude.  An attitude can be fixed while age
> > can't,
>
> Some of it is just not fitting the offense throwing off his game.
> But he seems to be getting worse and offering that only as an excuse not
> an adjustment for himself.
>
>  > but aging isn't contagious while a bad attitude can spread like the
>  > flu.
>
> Seems to me if they do not turn around soon webbie's 'will be fine in
> january' will turn into a total implosion with a little more losing.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I agree that the trade was a bad one for the pistons, nevertheless i
dont think the pistons had a shot with billups either... Therefore at
this point i think you should either bench RIP or trade him. Your
starting lineup should be Stuckey AI Wallace Prince and Mcdyess...
 >> Stay informed about: Rip the SF...? 

On Dec 12, 3:45 pm, lakerfan1975
wrote:
> On Dec 12, 7:25 am, Terraholm wrote:
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> > > On Dec 11, 4:55 pm, Terraholm wrote:
> > >> Grey Matters wrote:
>
> > >>> The one saving grace of Iverson's offense since he got older and slower is
> > >>> that he still went to the line a lot. That's faded now, too. Bottom line
> > >>> is he's playing like he's got a lot more fear on offense and defense.
>
> > >> He is still getting a lot of FTs.
>
> > > He's down significantly, though, on a pace to shoot over 200 fewer
> > > than
> > > last year, and down even more from the days when he was a real
> > > offensive
> > > force. That's about 2 points a game missing, also missing are the
> > > good
> > > things that come from drawing fouls like the extra times that
> > > opponents
> > > face foul trouble, and penalty shots for teammates, etc...
>
> > >> Maybe he is just trying too hard at least at that end of the floor.
> > >> His FGP was decent with the nugs unlike his philly years.
>
> > >> He still shows little inclination for effort on D past going for steals
> > >> which is fine when it works...
>
> > > I think the lack of effort on D is matching up with the lack of
> > > effort
> > > getting fouls on drives. I'm not sure whether I would prefer it to
> > > be
> > > a sign of aging or attitude. An attitude can be fixed while age
> > > can't,
>
> > Some of it is just not fitting the offense throwing off his game.
> > But he seems to be getting worse and offering that only as an excuse not
> > an adjustment for himself.
>
> > > but aging isn't contagious while a bad attitude can spread like the
> > > flu.
>
> > Seems to me if they do not turn around soon webbie's 'will be fine in
> > january' will turn into a total implosion with a little more losing.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I agree that the trade was a bad one for the pistons, nevertheless i
> dont think the pistons had a shot with billups either... Therefore at
> this point i think you should either bench RIP or trade him. Your
> starting lineup should be Stuckey AI Wallace Prince and Mcdyess...

Your under the assumption that AI fits into the future plans of the
Pistons. Its AI's 20+ Mil. that comes off the books in the summer that
made this trade happen.
 >> Stay informed about: Rip the SF...? 

lakerfan1975 wrote:
> On Dec 12, 7:25 am, Terraholm wrote:
>> wrote:
>>> On Dec 11, 4:55 pm, Terraholm wrote:
>>>> Grey Matters wrote:
>>>>> The one saving grace of Iverson's offense since he got older and slower is
>>>>> that he still went to the line a lot. That's faded now, too. Bottom line
>>>>> is he's playing like he's got a lot more fear on offense and defense.
>>>> He is still getting a lot of FTs.
>>> He's down significantly, though, on a pace to shoot over 200 fewer
>>> than
>>> last year, and down even more from the days when he was a real
>>> offensive
>>> force. That's about 2 points a game missing, also missing are the
>>> good
>>> things that come from drawing fouls like the extra times that
>>> opponents
>>> face foul trouble, and penalty shots for teammates, etc...
>>>> Maybe he is just trying too hard at least at that end of the floor.
>>>> His FGP was decent with the nugs unlike his philly years.
>>>> He still shows little inclination for effort on D past going for steals
>>>> which is fine when it works...
>>> I think the lack of effort on D is matching up with the lack of
>>> effort
>>> getting fouls on drives. I'm not sure whether I would prefer it to
>>> be
>>> a sign of aging or attitude. An attitude can be fixed while age
>>> can't,
>> Some of it is just not fitting the offense throwing off his game.
>> But he seems to be getting worse and offering that only as an excuse not
>> an adjustment for himself.
>>
>> > but aging isn't contagious while a bad attitude can spread like the
>> > flu.
>>
>> Seems to me if they do not turn around soon webbie's 'will be fine in
>> january' will turn into a total implosion with a little more losing.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> I agree that the trade was a bad one for the pistons, nevertheless i
> dont think the pistons had a shot with billups either... Therefore at
> this point i think you should either bench RIP or trade him.

They traded for Iverson's ending contract. It was Billups contract they
needed to go not Billups' game. Rip they keep as part of the longer term
plans and he already fits the ofense.
Iverson fitting in was a bonus that has not happened. Likely he gets
no offer at all next summer he would not consider a snub and walks...
while Dumars goes shopping with about 15 to 20 million to spend.
 >> Stay informed about: Rip the SF...? 

"Terraholm" wrote in message

> lakerfan1975 wrote:
>> On Dec 12, 7:25 am, Terraholm wrote:
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Dec 11, 4:55 pm, Terraholm wrote:
>>>>> Grey Matters wrote:
>>>>>> The one saving grace of Iverson's offense since he got older and
>>>>>> slower is
>>>>>> that he still went to the line a lot. That's faded now, too. Bottom
>>>>>> line
>>>>>> is he's playing like he's got a lot more fear on offense and defense.
>>>>> He is still getting a lot of FTs.
>>>> He's down significantly, though, on a pace to shoot over 200 fewer
>>>> than
>>>> last year, and down even more from the days when he was a real
>>>> offensive
>>>> force. That's about 2 points a game missing, also missing are the
>>>> good
>>>> things that come from drawing fouls like the extra times that
>>>> opponents
>>>> face foul trouble, and penalty shots for teammates, etc...
>>>>> Maybe he is just trying too hard at least at that end of the floor.
>>>>> His FGP was decent with the nugs unlike his philly years.
>>>>> He still shows little inclination for effort on D past going for
>>>>> steals
>>>>> which is fine when it works...
>>>> I think the lack of effort on D is matching up with the lack of
>>>> effort
>>>> getting fouls on drives. I'm not sure whether I would prefer it to
>>>> be
>>>> a sign of aging or attitude. An attitude can be fixed while age
>>>> can't,
>>> Some of it is just not fitting the offense throwing off his game.
>>> But he seems to be getting worse and offering that only as an excuse not
>>> an adjustment for himself.
>>>
>>> > but aging isn't contagious while a bad attitude can spread like the
>>> > flu.
>>>
>>> Seems to me if they do not turn around soon webbie's 'will be fine in
>>> january' will turn into a total implosion with a little more losing.-
>>> Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> I agree that the trade was a bad one for the pistons, nevertheless i
>> dont think the pistons had a shot with billups either... Therefore at
>> this point i think you should either bench RIP or trade him.
>
> They traded for Iverson's ending contract. It was Billups contract they
> needed to go not Billups' game. Rip they keep as part of the longer term
> plans and he already fits the ofense.
> Iverson fitting in was a bonus that has not happened. Likely he gets no
> offer at all next summer he would not consider a snub and walks... while
> Dumars goes shopping with about 15 to 20 million to spend.

Seems to me that Rip is looking like the old Rip since this thread started,
and AI is proving to be someone pretty adept at dishing to the open man. Not
to sound like Webbie but, it's way to early to start writing the team off
people. It's not where you start, it's where you finish, and the Pistons are
still finding out who they are.

Dave
 >> Stay informed about: Rip the SF...? 

On Dec 13, 3:20 pm, "hol99" wrote:
> "Terraholm" wrote in message
>
>
>
>
>
> > lakerfan1975 wrote:
> >> On Dec 12, 7:25 am, Terraholm wrote:
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> On Dec 11, 4:55 pm, Terraholm wrote:
> >>>>> Grey Matters wrote:
> >>>>>> The one saving grace of Iverson's offense since he got older and
> >>>>>> slower is
> >>>>>> that he still went to the line a lot. That's faded now, too. Bottom
> >>>>>> line
> >>>>>> is he's playing like he's got a lot more fear on offense and defense.
> >>>>> He is still getting a lot of FTs.
> >>>> He's down significantly, though, on a pace to shoot over 200 fewer
> >>>> than
> >>>> last year, and down even more from the days when he was a real
> >>>> offensive
> >>>> force. That's about 2 points a game missing, also missing are the
> >>>> good
> >>>> things that come from drawing fouls like the extra times that
> >>>> opponents
> >>>> face foul trouble, and penalty shots for teammates, etc...
> >>>>> Maybe he is just trying too hard at least at that end of the floor.
> >>>>> His FGP was decent with the nugs unlike his philly years.
> >>>>> He still shows little inclination for effort on D past going for
> >>>>> steals
> >>>>> which is fine when it works...
> >>>> I think the lack of effort on D is matching up with the lack of
> >>>> effort
> >>>> getting fouls on drives. I'm not sure whether I would prefer it to
> >>>> be
> >>>> a sign of aging or attitude. An attitude can be fixed while age
> >>>> can't,
> >>> Some of it is just not fitting the offense throwing off his game.
> >>> But he seems to be getting worse and offering that only as an excuse not
> >>> an adjustment for himself.
>
> >>> > but aging isn't contagious while a bad attitude can spread like the
> >>> > flu.
>
> >>> Seems to me if they do not turn around soon webbie's 'will be fine in
> >>> january' will turn into a total implosion with a little more losing.-
> >>> Hide quoted text -
>
> >>> - Show quoted text -
>
> >> I agree that the trade was a bad one for the pistons, nevertheless i
> >> dont think the pistons had a shot with billups either... Therefore at
> >> this point i think you should either bench RIP or trade him.
>
> > They traded for Iverson's ending contract. It was Billups contract they
> > needed to go not Billups' game. Rip they keep as part of the longer term
> > plans and he already fits the ofense.
> > Iverson fitting in was a bonus that has not happened. Likely he gets no
> > offer at all next summer he would not consider a snub and walks... while
> > Dumars goes shopping with about 15 to 20 million to spend.
>
> Seems to me that Rip is looking like the old Rip since this thread started,
> and AI is proving to be someone pretty adept at dishing to the open man. Not
> to sound like Webbie but, it's way to early to start writing the team off
> people. It's not where you start, it's where you finish, and the Pistons are
> still finding out who they are.
>
> Dave

I hope you're right. And I really would hope for Webbie to right this
time(since he has a huge man crush on A.I.). I think the offense will
come. But something has to be done about the defense!
 >> Stay informed about: Rip the SF...? 

hol99 wrote:
> "Terraholm" wrote in message
>
>> lakerfan1975 wrote:
>>> On Dec 12, 7:25 am, Terraholm wrote:
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Dec 11, 4:55 pm, Terraholm wrote:
>>>>>> Grey Matters wrote:
>>>>>>> The one saving grace of Iverson's offense since he got older and
>>>>>>> slower is
>>>>>>> that he still went to the line a lot. That's faded now, too. Bottom
>>>>>>> line
>>>>>>> is he's playing like he's got a lot more fear on offense and defense.
>>>>>> He is still getting a lot of FTs.
>>>>> He's down significantly, though, on a pace to shoot over 200 fewer
>>>>> than
>>>>> last year, and down even more from the days when he was a real
>>>>> offensive
>>>>> force. That's about 2 points a game missing, also missing are the
>>>>> good
>>>>> things that come from drawing fouls like the extra times that
>>>>> opponents
>>>>> face foul trouble, and penalty shots for teammates, etc...
>>>>>> Maybe he is just trying too hard at least at that end of the floor.
>>>>>> His FGP was decent with the nugs unlike his philly years.
>>>>>> He still shows little inclination for effort on D past going for
>>>>>> steals
>>>>>> which is fine when it works...
>>>>> I think the lack of effort on D is matching up with the lack of
>>>>> effort
>>>>> getting fouls on drives. I'm not sure whether I would prefer it to
>>>>> be
>>>>> a sign of aging or attitude. An attitude can be fixed while age
>>>>> can't,
>>>> Some of it is just not fitting the offense throwing off his game.
>>>> But he seems to be getting worse and offering that only as an excuse not
>>>> an adjustment for himself.
>>>>
>>>> > but aging isn't contagious while a bad attitude can spread like the
>>>> > flu.
>>>>
>>>> Seems to me if they do not turn around soon webbie's 'will be fine in
>>>> january' will turn into a total implosion with a little more losing.-
>>>> Hide quoted text -
>>>>
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> I agree that the trade was a bad one for the pistons, nevertheless i
>>> dont think the pistons had a shot with billups either... Therefore at
>>> this point i think you should either bench RIP or trade him.
>> They traded for Iverson's ending contract. It was Billups contract they
>> needed to go not Billups' game. Rip they keep as part of the longer term
>> plans and he already fits the ofense.
>> Iverson fitting in was a bonus that has not happened. Likely he gets no
>> offer at all next summer he would not consider a snub and walks... while
>> Dumars goes shopping with about 15 to 20 million to spend.
>
> Seems to me that Rip is looking like the old Rip since this thread started,
> and AI is proving to be someone pretty adept at dishing to the open man.

Did the last game and the offense looked good AI included. On the other
hand the defense was still terrible, both Stuckey and Iverson letting
the guards dance and the pacers shot over well 50% and looked as good as
detroit.


>Not
> to sound like Webbie but, it's way to early to start writing the team off
> people. It's not where you start, it's where you finish, and the Pistons are
> still finding out who they are.
>

You are right of course, but it is more fun to jerk webbie's strings
than agree with him on the time table. ;-)
 >> Stay informed about: Rip the SF...? 

On Dec 13, 4:38 pm, Terraholm wrote:
> hol99 wrote:
> > "Terraholm" wrote in message
> >
> >> lakerfan1975 wrote:
> >>> On Dec 12, 7:25 am, Terraholm wrote:
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> On Dec 11, 4:55 pm, Terraholm wrote:
> >>>>>> Grey Matters wrote:
> >>>>>>> The one saving grace of Iverson's offense since he got older and
> >>>>>>> slower is
> >>>>>>> that he still went to the line a lot. That's faded now, too. Bottom
> >>>>>>> line
> >>>>>>> is he's playing like he's got a lot more fear on offense and defense.
> >>>>>> He is still getting a lot of FTs.
> >>>>> He's down significantly, though, on a pace to shoot over 200 fewer
> >>>>> than
> >>>>> last year, and down even more from the days when he was a real
> >>>>> offensive
> >>>>> force. That's about 2 points a game missing, also missing are the
> >>>>> good
> >>>>> things that come from drawing fouls like the extra times that
> >>>>> opponents
> >>>>> face foul trouble, and penalty shots for teammates, etc...
> >>>>>> Maybe he is just trying too hard at least at that end of the floor.
> >>>>>> His FGP was decent with the nugs unlike his philly years.
> >>>>>> He still shows little inclination for effort on D past going for
> >>>>>> steals
> >>>>>> which is fine when it works...
> >>>>> I think the lack of effort on D is matching up with the lack of
> >>>>> effort
> >>>>> getting fouls on drives. I'm not sure whether I would prefer it to
> >>>>> be
> >>>>> a sign of aging or attitude. An attitude can be fixed while age
> >>>>> can't,
> >>>> Some of it is just not fitting the offense throwing off his game.
> >>>> But he seems to be getting worse and offering that only as an excuse not
> >>>> an adjustment for himself.
>
> >>>> > but aging isn't contagious while a bad attitude can spread like the
> >>>> > flu.
>
> >>>> Seems to me if they do not turn around soon webbie's 'will be fine in
> >>>> january' will turn into a total implosion with a little more losing.-
> >>>> Hide quoted text -
>
> >>>> - Show quoted text -
> >>> I agree that the trade was a bad one for the pistons, nevertheless i
> >>> dont think the pistons had a shot with billups either... Therefore at
> >>> this point i think you should either bench RIP or trade him.
> >> They traded for Iverson's ending contract. It was Billups contract they
> >> needed to go not Billups' game. Rip they keep as part of the longer term
> >> plans and he already fits the ofense.
> >> Iverson fitting in was a bonus that has not happened. Likely he gets no
> >> offer at all next summer he would not consider a snub and walks... while
> >> Dumars goes shopping with about 15 to 20 million to spend.
>
> > Seems to me that Rip is looking like the old Rip since this thread started,
> > and AI is proving to be someone pretty adept at dishing to the open man.
>
> Did the last game and the offense looked good AI included. On the other
> hand the defense was still terrible, both Stuckey and Iverson letting
> the guards dance and the pacers shot over well 50% and looked as good as
> detroit.
>
> >Not
> > to sound like Webbie but, it's way to early to start writing the team off
> > people. It's not where you start, it's where you finish, and the Pistons are
> > still finding out who they are.
>
> You are right of course, but it is more fun to jerk webbie's strings
> than agree with him on the time table. ;-)

At least in Stuckey's case there were instances were he stayed in from
of T.J. and cut his penetration short but to be fair, staying in front
of T.J. for 30 minutes is no walk in the park. Stuckey at least looks
as though he's trying to play D.
 >> Stay informed about: Rip the SF...? 

I never said Allen's addition to Denver would make them a contender to
the throne.
They didn't have the horses to make a run in the west which is steep
with good teams.
I said it would make them competitors!

http://community.webtv.net/AnitaCotillier/AnitaDarling
To be born empty and leave empty will insure but one thing. That man
will have to be born again.
 >> Stay informed about: Rip the SF...? 

Anita Darling wrote:
> I never said Allen's addition to Denver would make them a contender to
> the throne.
> They didn't have the horses to make a run in the west which is steep
> with good teams.
> I said it would make them competitors!


Well they dropped into the lottery while Philly made the playofs the
first year, then got swept in the first round after that. I am sure that
is what you meant...
 >> Stay informed about: Rip the SF...?