Seeding

In alt.sports.basketball.nba.denver-nuggets on Thu, 12 Apr 2007 10:56:38
-0600 Howard Brazee wrote:

>I was looking at the seeding in the west, and I'm confused.
>
>1. Dallas = best record in the West, best record in the Southwest
>2. Phoenix = 2nd best record in the West, best record in the Pacific
>3. San Antonio = 3rd best record in the west, 2nd best in the
>Southwest.
>4. Utah, = 5th best record in the West, best record in the Northwest
>5. Houston = 4th best record in the West, 3rd best in the Southwest.
>
>
>Why is Utah seeded behind San Antonio and above Houston?

Because they lead their division. The three division leaders plus the best
record that doesn't lead its division are guaranteed the top 4 seeds. SA >
HOU, but UTA gets HCA automatically. This is new for this season.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2537369
 >> Stay informed about: Seeding 

"Fistpout Trebuchet" <humehnity.RemoveThis@example.com> wrote in message
news:shps139drkiqcrgdmlmuihrqhmt07me1ru@4ax.com...
> In alt.sports.basketball.nba.denver-nuggets on Thu, 12 Apr 2007 10:56:38
> -0600 Howard Brazee wrote:
>
>>I was looking at the seeding in the west, and I'm confused.
>>
>>1. Dallas = best record in the West, best record in the Southwest
>>2. Phoenix = 2nd best record in the West, best record in the Pacific
>>3. San Antonio = 3rd best record in the west, 2nd best in the
>>Southwest.
>>4. Utah, = 5th best record in the West, best record in the Northwest
>>5. Houston = 4th best record in the West, 3rd best in the Southwest.
>>
>>
>>Why is Utah seeded behind San Antonio and above Houston?
>
> Because they lead their division. The three division leaders plus the best
> record that doesn't lead its division are guaranteed the top 4 seeds. SA >
> HOU, but UTA gets HCA automatically. This is new for this season.
>
> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2537369

Oh, I didn't see this before I posted. I just heard on the radio last night
that Utah is losing it's homecourt advantage over Houston (and I'm glad the
Nuggets were able to help in that regard) so I don't think you are right
with that last point.
 >> Stay informed about: Seeding 

In alt.sports.basketball.nba.denver-nuggets on Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:06:14
-0600 BobInBoulder wrote:

>
>"Fistpout Trebuchet" <humehnity.DeleteThis@example.com> wrote in message
>news:shps139drkiqcrgdmlmuihrqhmt07me1ru@4ax.com...
>> In alt.sports.basketball.nba.denver-nuggets on Thu, 12 Apr 2007 10:56:38
>> -0600 Howard Brazee wrote:
>>
>>>I was looking at the seeding in the west, and I'm confused.
>>>
>>>1. Dallas = best record in the West, best record in the Southwest
>>>2. Phoenix = 2nd best record in the West, best record in the Pacific
>>>3. San Antonio = 3rd best record in the west, 2nd best in the
>>>Southwest.
>>>4. Utah, = 5th best record in the West, best record in the Northwest
>>>5. Houston = 4th best record in the West, 3rd best in the Southwest.
>>>
>>>
>>>Why is Utah seeded behind San Antonio and above Houston?
>>
>> Because they lead their division. The three division leaders plus the best
>> record that doesn't lead its division are guaranteed the top 4 seeds. SA >
>> HOU, but UTA gets HCA automatically. This is new for this season.
>>
>> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2537369
>
>Oh, I didn't see this before I posted. I just heard on the radio last night
>that Utah is losing it's homecourt advantage over Houston (and I'm glad the
>Nuggets were able to help in that regard) so I don't think you are right
>with that last point.
>

I'm pretty sure I'm right. Take a look at the official NBA standings, which
show UTA as having clinched the NW Div and holding on to the 4th seed:
http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Div.html

Who you gonna trust, a random radio jock or an anonymous usenet poster with
a funny handle?
 >> Stay informed about: Seeding 

"Fistpout Trebuchet" <humehnity RemoveThis @example.com> wrote in message
news:nrts13lstbc9sa8f8msrk0v5ukusl3cadn@4ax.com...
> In alt.sports.basketball.nba.denver-nuggets on Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:06:14
> -0600 BobInBoulder wrote:
>
>>
>>"Fistpout Trebuchet" <humehnity RemoveThis @example.com> wrote in message
>>news:shps139drkiqcrgdmlmuihrqhmt07me1ru@4ax.com...
>>> In alt.sports.basketball.nba.denver-nuggets on Thu, 12 Apr 2007 10:56:38
>>> -0600 Howard Brazee wrote:
>>>
>>>>I was looking at the seeding in the west, and I'm confused.
>>>>
>>>>1. Dallas = best record in the West, best record in the Southwest
>>>>2. Phoenix = 2nd best record in the West, best record in the Pacific
>>>>3. San Antonio = 3rd best record in the west, 2nd best in the
>>>>Southwest.
>>>>4. Utah, = 5th best record in the West, best record in the Northwest
>>>>5. Houston = 4th best record in the West, 3rd best in the Southwest.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Why is Utah seeded behind San Antonio and above Houston?
>>>
>>> Because they lead their division. The three division leaders plus the
>>> best
>>> record that doesn't lead its division are guaranteed the top 4 seeds. SA
>>> >
>>> HOU, but UTA gets HCA automatically. This is new for this season.
>>>
>>> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2537369
>>
>>Oh, I didn't see this before I posted. I just heard on the radio last
>>night
>>that Utah is losing it's homecourt advantage over Houston (and I'm glad
>>the
>>Nuggets were able to help in that regard) so I don't think you are right
>>with that last point.
>>
>
> I'm pretty sure I'm right. Take a look at the official NBA standings,
> which
> show UTA as having clinched the NW Div and holding on to the 4th seed:
> http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Div.html
>
> Who you gonna trust, a random radio jock or an anonymous usenet poster
> with
> a funny handle?

Good point. ;) But last year the Nugs were the 3rd seed by virtue of
winning their division but the Clippers had home court even though they were
a 6th seed because they had a better record.
 >> Stay informed about: Seeding 

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:03:34 -0600, "BobInBoulder"
<binb RemoveThis @noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:

>So this year the league decided to award the top 4 seeds in each conference
>to the division winners plus the second place team with the best record, in
>order of record. Therefore SA is being seeded based on their record. Utah
>is 4th because that is the worst they can do as a division winner. Houston
>is 5th but will have home court over Utah if they have a better record and
>meet in the 1st round (like the Clippers over the Nuggets last year, even
>though the Nugs were a 3 seed because their division sucked and the Clippers
>were a 6 seed).

That's funny - if Utah is 4th, and Houston is 5th, does that mean
anything when they play each other in the first round? It doesn't
appear so.
 >> Stay informed about: Seeding 

"BobInBoulder" <binb DeleteThis @noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote in message
news:131t1n01a8efm86@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Fistpout Trebuchet" <humehnity DeleteThis @example.com> wrote in message
> news:nrts13lstbc9sa8f8msrk0v5ukusl3cadn@4ax.com...
>> In alt.sports.basketball.nba.denver-nuggets on Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:06:14
>> -0600 BobInBoulder wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Fistpout Trebuchet" <humehnity DeleteThis @example.com> wrote in message
>>>news:shps139drkiqcrgdmlmuihrqhmt07me1ru@4ax.com...
>>>> In alt.sports.basketball.nba.denver-nuggets on Thu, 12 Apr 2007
>>>> 10:56:38
>>>> -0600 Howard Brazee wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I was looking at the seeding in the west, and I'm confused.
>>>>>
>>>>>1. Dallas = best record in the West, best record in the Southwest
>>>>>2. Phoenix = 2nd best record in the West, best record in the Pacific
>>>>>3. San Antonio = 3rd best record in the west, 2nd best in the
>>>>>Southwest.
>>>>>4. Utah, = 5th best record in the West, best record in the Northwest
>>>>>5. Houston = 4th best record in the West, 3rd best in the Southwest.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Why is Utah seeded behind San Antonio and above Houston?
>>>>
>>>> Because they lead their division. The three division leaders plus the
>>>> best
>>>> record that doesn't lead its division are guaranteed the top 4 seeds.
>>>> SA >
>>>> HOU, but UTA gets HCA automatically. This is new for this season.
>>>>
>>>> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2537369
>>>
>>>Oh, I didn't see this before I posted. I just heard on the radio last
>>>night
>>>that Utah is losing it's homecourt advantage over Houston (and I'm glad
>>>the
>>>Nuggets were able to help in that regard) so I don't think you are right
>>>with that last point.
>>>
>>
>> I'm pretty sure I'm right. Take a look at the official NBA standings,
>> which
>> show UTA as having clinched the NW Div and holding on to the 4th seed:
>> http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Div.html
>>
>> Who you gonna trust, a random radio jock or an anonymous usenet poster
>> with
>> a funny handle?
>
> Good point. ;) But last year the Nugs were the 3rd seed by virtue of
> winning their division but the Clippers had home court even though they
> were a 6th seed because they had a better record.

Just one more data point. I just heard on the radio this morning that
Cleveland, locked into the 5 seed in the East, just clinched home court over
whoever ends up being the 4th seed.
 >> Stay informed about: Seeding 

In alt.sports.basketball.nba.denver-nuggets on Fri, 13 Apr 2007 09:13:16
-0600 BobInBoulder wrote:

>
>"BobInBoulder" <binb.DeleteThis@noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote in message
>news:131t1n01a8efm86@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>> "Fistpout Trebuchet" <humehnity.DeleteThis@example.com> wrote in message
>> news:nrts13lstbc9sa8f8msrk0v5ukusl3cadn@4ax.com...
>>> In alt.sports.basketball.nba.denver-nuggets on Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:06:14
>>> -0600 BobInBoulder wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Fistpout Trebuchet" <humehnity.DeleteThis@example.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:shps139drkiqcrgdmlmuihrqhmt07me1ru@4ax.com...
>>>>> In alt.sports.basketball.nba.denver-nuggets on Thu, 12 Apr 2007
>>>>> 10:56:38
>>>>> -0600 Howard Brazee wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I was looking at the seeding in the west, and I'm confused.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1. Dallas = best record in the West, best record in the Southwest
>>>>>>2. Phoenix = 2nd best record in the West, best record in the Pacific
>>>>>>3. San Antonio = 3rd best record in the west, 2nd best in the
>>>>>>Southwest.
>>>>>>4. Utah, = 5th best record in the West, best record in the Northwest
>>>>>>5. Houston = 4th best record in the West, 3rd best in the Southwest.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Why is Utah seeded behind San Antonio and above Houston?
>>>>>
>>>>> Because they lead their division. The three division leaders plus the
>>>>> best
>>>>> record that doesn't lead its division are guaranteed the top 4 seeds.
>>>>> SA >
>>>>> HOU, but UTA gets HCA automatically. This is new for this season.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2537369
>>>>
>>>>Oh, I didn't see this before I posted. I just heard on the radio last
>>>>night
>>>>that Utah is losing it's homecourt advantage over Houston (and I'm glad
>>>>the
>>>>Nuggets were able to help in that regard) so I don't think you are right
>>>>with that last point.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm pretty sure I'm right. Take a look at the official NBA standings,
>>> which
>>> show UTA as having clinched the NW Div and holding on to the 4th seed:
>>> http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Div.html
>>>
>>> Who you gonna trust, a random radio jock or an anonymous usenet poster
>>> with
>>> a funny handle?
>>
>> Good point. ;) But last year the Nugs were the 3rd seed by virtue of
>> winning their division but the Clippers had home court even though they
>> were a 6th seed because they had a better record.
>
>Just one more data point. I just heard on the radio this morning that
>Cleveland, locked into the 5 seed in the East, just clinched home court over
>whoever ends up being the 4th seed.
>

I think we have a definitional issue here. A lower seed cannot have HCA over
a higher seed -- that is the meaning of seeding, the HCA. I think what they
may have been discussing on the radio is simple win/loss records, which is
only one thing under consideration in seeding.

In any case, the issue is not the 5th seed, but the 4th. In the past,
division winners took the top 3 seeds, and the best non-division winner took
the 4th seed. It is my contention (backed up by the ESPN article referenced
previously) that for this season the top 4 seeds (ie 3 division winners plus
the best non-division winner) are seeded according to their records, even if
that means the non-division winner gets to be seeded higher than a division
winner. Seeds 5-8 get the same treatment as before, ie sorted according to
their records + tie breaks and having no HCA when facing a higher seed.

In the past, UTA (a division winner) would have been guaranteed a top 3
seed. This season, they are the 4th seed, because SAN, who trail DAL in
their division, have a better record than UTA. HOU, who also have a better
record than UTA, are seeded 5th because they trail SAN for the best
non-division winner record, and therefore do not qualify for the top 4
seeds, even though they have the 4th best record in the conference.
 >> Stay informed about: Seeding 

"Fistpout Trebuchet" <humehnity.DeleteThis@example.com> wrote in message
news:8c8v139kstgleuhkbgah022vhlj22ru1o0@4ax.com...
> In alt.sports.basketball.nba.denver-nuggets on Fri, 13 Apr 2007 09:13:16
> -0600 BobInBoulder wrote:
>
>>
>>"BobInBoulder" <binb.DeleteThis@noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote in message
>>news:131t1n01a8efm86@corp.supernews.com...
>>>
>>> "Fistpout Trebuchet" <humehnity.DeleteThis@example.com> wrote in message
>>> news:nrts13lstbc9sa8f8msrk0v5ukusl3cadn@4ax.com...
>>>> In alt.sports.basketball.nba.denver-nuggets on Thu, 12 Apr 2007
>>>> 12:06:14
>>>> -0600 BobInBoulder wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Fistpout Trebuchet" <humehnity.DeleteThis@example.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:shps139drkiqcrgdmlmuihrqhmt07me1ru@4ax.com...
>>>>>> In alt.sports.basketball.nba.denver-nuggets on Thu, 12 Apr 2007
>>>>>> 10:56:38
>>>>>> -0600 Howard Brazee wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I was looking at the seeding in the west, and I'm confused.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>1. Dallas = best record in the West, best record in the Southwest
>>>>>>>2. Phoenix = 2nd best record in the West, best record in the Pacific
>>>>>>>3. San Antonio = 3rd best record in the west, 2nd best in the
>>>>>>>Southwest.
>>>>>>>4. Utah, = 5th best record in the West, best record in the Northwest
>>>>>>>5. Houston = 4th best record in the West, 3rd best in the Southwest.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Why is Utah seeded behind San Antonio and above Houston?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because they lead their division. The three division leaders plus the
>>>>>> best
>>>>>> record that doesn't lead its division are guaranteed the top 4 seeds.
>>>>>> SA >
>>>>>> HOU, but UTA gets HCA automatically. This is new for this season.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2537369
>>>>>
>>>>>Oh, I didn't see this before I posted. I just heard on the radio last
>>>>>night
>>>>>that Utah is losing it's homecourt advantage over Houston (and I'm glad
>>>>>the
>>>>>Nuggets were able to help in that regard) so I don't think you are
>>>>>right
>>>>>with that last point.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm pretty sure I'm right. Take a look at the official NBA standings,
>>>> which
>>>> show UTA as having clinched the NW Div and holding on to the 4th seed:
>>>> http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Div.html
>>>>
>>>> Who you gonna trust, a random radio jock or an anonymous usenet poster
>>>> with
>>>> a funny handle?
>>>
>>> Good point. ;) But last year the Nugs were the 3rd seed by virtue of
>>> winning their division but the Clippers had home court even though they
>>> were a 6th seed because they had a better record.
>>
>>Just one more data point. I just heard on the radio this morning that
>>Cleveland, locked into the 5 seed in the East, just clinched home court
>>over
>>whoever ends up being the 4th seed.
>>
>
> I think we have a definitional issue here. A lower seed cannot have HCA
> over
> a higher seed -- that is the meaning of seeding, the HCA. I think what
> they
> may have been discussing on the radio is simple win/loss records, which is
> only one thing under consideration in seeding.
>

Last year the Clips, a 6th seed, had home court over the Nugs, a 3 seed,
because they had a better record. This year Cleveland or Chicago, or
whoever finishes as the 5 seed in the east, will have home court over the
4th seed, and Houston, a 5 seed, may have home court over Utah, a 4 seed.
I'm pretty sure you are wrong above. Want to put money on it? ;) I
understand the new 1-4 seeding system, but having a higher seed does not
guarantee HCA. OK, I finally found something on nba.com, under playoff
format:

"The team in each series with the better record has home court advantage.
This means that, for example, if the team who receives the six seed has a
better record than the team with the three seed (seeded thus by virtue of a
divisional championship), the six seed would have home court advantage, even
though the other team has a higher seed."

> In any case, the issue is not the 5th seed, but the 4th. In the past,
> division winners took the top 3 seeds, and the best non-division winner
> took
> the 4th seed. It is my contention (backed up by the ESPN article
> referenced
> previously) that for this season the top 4 seeds (ie 3 division winners
> plus
> the best non-division winner) are seeded according to their records, even
> if
> that means the non-division winner gets to be seeded higher than a
> division
> winner. Seeds 5-8 get the same treatment as before, ie sorted according to
> their records + tie breaks and having no HCA when facing a higher seed.
>
> In the past, UTA (a division winner) would have been guaranteed a top 3
> seed. This season, they are the 4th seed, because SAN, who trail DAL in
> their division, have a better record than UTA. HOU, who also have a better
> record than UTA, are seeded 5th because they trail SAN for the best
> non-division winner record, and therefore do not qualify for the top 4
> seeds, even though they have the 4th best record in the conference.
 >> Stay informed about: Seeding 

On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 09:59:12 -0600, "BobInBoulder"
<binb DeleteThis @noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:

>Last year the Clips, a 6th seed, had home court over the Nugs, a 3 seed,
>because they had a better record. This year Cleveland or Chicago, or
>whoever finishes as the 5 seed in the east, will have home court over the
>4th seed, and Houston, a 5 seed, may have home court over Utah, a 4 seed.
>I'm pretty sure you are wrong above. Want to put money on it? ;) I
>understand the new 1-4 seeding system, but having a higher seed does not
>guarantee HCA. OK, I finally found something on nba.com, under playoff
>format:

If a higher seed doesn't give "home court advantage", then what *does*
it give?
 >> Stay informed about: Seeding 

"Howard Brazee" <howard.DeleteThis@brazee.net> wrote in message
news:blvv131iurd9m6arh42qnareq0q0u3dseb@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 09:59:12 -0600, "BobInBoulder"
> <binb.DeleteThis@noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:
>
>>Last year the Clips, a 6th seed, had home court over the Nugs, a 3 seed,
>>because they had a better record. This year Cleveland or Chicago, or
>>whoever finishes as the 5 seed in the east, will have home court over the
>>4th seed, and Houston, a 5 seed, may have home court over Utah, a 4 seed.
>>I'm pretty sure you are wrong above. Want to put money on it? ;) I
>>understand the new 1-4 seeding system, but having a higher seed does not
>>guarantee HCA. OK, I finally found something on nba.com, under playoff
>>format:
>
> If a higher seed doesn't give "home court advantage", then what *does*
> it give?

Just sets the matchups. So in the case of the 4-5, it really means
absolutely nothing.
 >> Stay informed about: Seeding 

> I think we have a definitional issue here. A lower seed cannot have HCA over
> a higher seed -- that is the meaning of seeding, the HCA. I think what they
> may have been discussing on the radio is simple win/loss records, which is
> only one thing under consideration in seeding.


And hear I thought it was the process of planting seeds :)
 >> Stay informed about: Seeding 

BobInBoulder wrote:
> "Howard Brazee" <howard DeleteThis @brazee.net> wrote in message
> news:blvv131iurd9m6arh42qnareq0q0u3dseb@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 09:59:12 -0600, "BobInBoulder"
>> <binb DeleteThis @noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Last year the Clips, a 6th seed, had home court over the Nugs, a 3 seed,
>>> because they had a better record. This year Cleveland or Chicago, or
>>> whoever finishes as the 5 seed in the east, will have home court over the
>>> 4th seed, and Houston, a 5 seed, may have home court over Utah, a 4 seed.
>>> I'm pretty sure you are wrong above. Want to put money on it? ;) I
>>> understand the new 1-4 seeding system, but having a higher seed does not
>>> guarantee HCA. OK, I finally found something on nba.com, under playoff
>>> format:
>> If a higher seed doesn't give "home court advantage", then what *does*
>> it give?
>
> Just sets the matchups. So in the case of the 4-5, it really means
> absolutely nothing.
>
>



When are we going to actually start talking about the Nuggets?????
 >> Stay informed about: Seeding 

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 13:26:03 -0600, David Misner
<miracleman2 RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:

>When are we going to actually start talking about the Nuggets?????

Say something about the Nuggets.
 >> Stay informed about: Seeding