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'Sheed to the hawks

 
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toad

External


Since: Oct 31, 2003
Posts: 140



(Msg. 91) Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:31 pm
Post subject: Re: 'Sheed to the hawks [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>sports>basketball>nba>la-lakers, others (more info?)

"PDX Blazers" <pdx_blazers RemoveThis @sacbeemail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > and he waited 8 months to finally get a deal for sheed. doesn't mean
> > damon, dale, or rube won't be next.
>
> I'm not saying that, the only thing I disagree with is the idea that
> the arrival of Dickau is a signal that Damon is on the way out of town.

lol, I'm not saying that. heck no.


> From what I understand, Portland didn't ask for Dickau, so I don't think
> there is any connection there.

yea, I think dickau willl be lucky to average more minutes here than he did
in atlanta and i believe he'll be in the expansion draft.


> > bonzi, now sheed. i heard many predict sheed would walk b/c his salary
> > was too big. well, they made it work. i don't think damon's next on
> > the agenda though.
>
> I don't think Damon will retire as a Blazer, but I wouldn't be surprised
> to see him back next fall.

yea. rube or dale will go for maybe a backup shooting guard or something.
i hope.

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Granville Waiters' Ghost

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Since: Jun 05, 2004
Posts: 101



(Msg. 92) Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:05 am
Post subject: Re: 'Sheed to the hawks [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>sports>basketball>nba>port-blazers (more info?)

In article <sYIWb.10444$1S1.5085@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>, "toad"
<papatoad DeleteThis @mrstoad.com> wrote:

> > Not to mention that you're importing 25% of a roster from one of
> > the two or three worst teams in the NBA. But what the hell--people
> > said the same thing about Indiana when they acquired Artest, Miller
> > and Mercer for Jalen Rose.
>
> well, that's exactly why I don't buy the theory of players only being good
> b/c they're the product of a bad team. talent is what it's all about.
> talent breeds stats. when indiana made that trade, they weren't stupid.
> they knew what artest and miller were all about and I think they were stupid
> for letting him go to sacto.


Donnie Walsh has picked more pockets of anyone but Jerry West.
Even his bad moves (which Davis for Bender seems to be panning
out as... or not panning out, however you want to put it) aren't
the kinds of things that destroy a franchise, like... well...
Chicago.

Miller went where he could get paid, essentially. He's from
Indiana, but his agent made pretty clear that he was looking
for a big NBA check. Hard to fault him, because who would have
known if his stock would have ever been higher. Indiana tried
to do something to get Croshere off the books to resign him,
but it just wasn't going to be.


> it's the same with jamison. He was talented in college, proved the critics
> wrong on golden state, but he still had his doubters. he's producing
> pretty well off the bench for the mavericks and should be starting, but for
> some reason he isn't. hell, I think most would agree jamison is a better
> shooter than antoine, but antoine does more and jamison's a bit younger. so
> maybe it's a case of seniority. Jamison should be starting somewhere
> though.


I don't see nearly as much of the West as I do the East. Jamison
flourished under Mussleman, and I'm guessing that that's not a
coach that's going to tolerate a lot of stupid play from anyone.
So there must be something to him.


> I've followed him since cal and always been a fan of the guy. I don't see
> the hawks play enough to see the vanishing act you're referring to, but if
> that's true, I would have to say a lot of that has to do with the fact that
> he doesn't have much talent around him.


Going back to Vancouver, people have said he couldn't play in
the clutch. Bad rap? How many games was Vancouver even lucky
to be in during the 4th Quarter? With Portland, those questions
will be answered, and I hope it turns out well for him.

And Portland completely wasted the league in this trade. I
can't believe they got two valuable assets for salary cap
room. This was an awesome deal.

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Terraholm

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Since: Aug 26, 2004
Posts: 427



(Msg. 93) Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:05 am
Post subject: Re: 'Sheed to the hawks [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Granville Waiters' Ghost" <x RemoveThis @x.x> wrote in message
news:x-1202042014240001@user-v8lcr08.dialup.mindspring.com...

>
> And Portland completely wasted the league in this trade. I
> can't believe they got two valuable assets for salary cap
> room. This was an awesome deal.

Allen can appreciate the upside of the luxury tax this time...
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Terraholm

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Since: Aug 26, 2004
Posts: 427



(Msg. 94) Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:06 pm
Post subject: Re: 'Sheed to the hawks [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>sports>basketball>nba>la-lakers, others (more info?)

"toad" <papatoad.TakeThisOut@mrstoad.com> wrote in message
news:ZSeXb.8487$5W3.395@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
> "Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:102o98fodl7hc9e@corp.supernews.com...

> >
> > If he is such a deadeye he should have done better already...=)
>
> if you say so. i thought it took players awhile to adjust and get
> accustomed to the faster pace and bigger players in the nba. I thought
they
> needed time to groom. I didn't know fans and teams expected players to
jump
> right in and do exactly what they did in college in their first 2 seasons.

They better show something in practice if not games or they will not be
around past their third season.
The NBA is tough on shooting. Unlike college there is little practice time
and the defense against the exclusive talent that makes the NBA is a world
apart from most college games.


--
Laurel T
"I wish I was young again. I'd make a fortune and the
coach couldn't yell at me." Charles Barkley
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Gary Collard

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Since: Sep 02, 2003
Posts: 453



(Msg. 95) Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:32 pm
Post subject: Re: 'Sheed to the hawks [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Terraholm wrote:
>
> "Gary Collard" <garycollard.DeleteThis@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:402A765D.D6B3763F@netscape.net...
> > Terraholm wrote:
>
> > Dirk is a freak of nature, he can be used to "disprove" a lot of theories.
> >
> > Wallace is at least adequate, 34%, so he not quit shooting them but
> > probably should do so less than he does now. IMO not 4 per game like he
> > has this year.
>
> As opposed to Dirk who is also at 34% this year and also takes 4 per game?

Dirk is 37% career, this year looks like a fluke as opposed to his ability
level as with Sheed.

Now Toine Walker... :)

--
Gary Collard
SABR-L Moderator
gmcollard.DeleteThis@yahoo.com

"I would've gone for 2" -- Carolina coach John Fox when asked what he
thought of Justin Timberlake exposing Janet Jackson's breast
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Gary Collard

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Since: Sep 02, 2003
Posts: 453



(Msg. 96) Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:36 pm
Post subject: Re: 'Sheed to the hawks [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Gary Collard wrote:
>
> Terraholm wrote:
> >
> > "Gary Collard" <garycollard.DeleteThis@netscape.net> wrote in message
> > news:402A765D.D6B3763F@netscape.net...
> > > Terraholm wrote:
> >
> > > Dirk is a freak of nature, he can be used to "disprove" a lot of theories.
> > >
> > > Wallace is at least adequate, 34%, so he not quit shooting them but
> > > probably should do so less than he does now. IMO not 4 per game like he
> > > has this year.
> >
> > As opposed to Dirk who is also at 34% this year and also takes 4 per game?
>
> Dirk is 37% career, this year looks like a fluke as opposed to his ability
> level as with Sheed.
>
> Now Toine Walker... :)

I should add that Dirk shooting threes doesn't weaken the team's inside
game. The biggest problem I have with Sheed taking a lot of threes (as
opposed to the occasional one to stretch the interior D) is that you remove
a terrific inside threat in order to add a mediocre outside threat. Since
Dirk has no post game to speak of, he is not really a comp but somebody
brought him up, I guess because he's tall.

--
Gary Collard
SABR-L Moderator
gmcollard.DeleteThis@yahoo.com

"I would've gone for 2" -- Carolina coach John Fox when asked what he
thought of Justin Timberlake exposing Janet Jackson's breast
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Gary Collard

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Since: Sep 02, 2003
Posts: 453



(Msg. 97) Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:25 pm
Post subject: Re: 'Sheed to the hawks [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Terraholm wrote:
>
> "Gary Collard" <garycollard.RemoveThis@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:402D1923.2D26C576@netscape.net...
> > Gary Collard wrote:
> > >
> > > Terraholm wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Gary Collard" <garycollard.RemoveThis@netscape.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:402A765D.D6B3763F@netscape.net...
> > > > > Terraholm wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Dirk is a freak of nature, he can be used to "disprove" a lot of
> theories.
> > > > >
> > > > > Wallace is at least adequate, 34%, so he not quit shooting them but
> > > > > probably should do so less than he does now. IMO not 4 per game
> like he
> > > > > has this year.
> > > >
> > > > As opposed to Dirk who is also at 34% this year and also takes 4 per
> game?
> > >
> > > Dirk is 37% career, this year looks like a fluke as opposed to his
> ability
> > > level as with Sheed.
> > >
> > > Now Toine Walker... :)
> >
> > I should add that Dirk shooting threes doesn't weaken the team's inside
> > game. The biggest problem I have with Sheed taking a lot of threes (as
> > opposed to the occasional one to stretch the interior D) is that you
> remove
> > a terrific inside threat in order to add a mediocre outside threat.
>
> This season Randolph was down on the block. Most of 'Sheeds assists were to
> Zach.
> In the games game without 'Sheed Zach hardly got a touch for a game and a
> half.
>
> > Since
> > Dirk has no post game to speak of, he is not really a comp but somebody
> > brought him up, I guess because he's tall.
>
> So why should he not be forced into developing a post game instead of being
> praised for his range? Not like he was making room down there for their
> other post players.... But 'Sheed adding range and using it was wrong;...

You're preaching to the choir here, I would push him to develop a back to
the basket game. Even though he is one of the greatest pure shooters I
have ever seen, going in the blocks at times would make him really start to
look like Bird as a scorer (but not passer!).

--
Gary Collard
SABR-L Moderator
gmcollard.RemoveThis@yahoo.com

"I would've gone for 2" -- Carolina coach John Fox when asked what he
thought of Justin Timberlake exposing Janet Jackson's breast
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Terraholm

External


Since: Aug 26, 2004
Posts: 427



(Msg. 98) Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:25 pm
Post subject: Re: 'Sheed to the hawks [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Gary Collard" <garycollard.TakeThisOut@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:402D4EE0.D2EB21B8@netscape.net...
> Terraholm wrote:
> >
> > "Gary Collard" <garycollard.TakeThisOut@netscape.net> wrote in message
> > news:402D1923.2D26C576@netscape.net...
> > > Gary Collard wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Terraholm wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Gary Collard" <garycollard.TakeThisOut@netscape.net> wrote in message
> > > > > news:402A765D.D6B3763F@netscape.net...
> > > > > > Terraholm wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Dirk is a freak of nature, he can be used to "disprove" a lot of
> > theories.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wallace is at least adequate, 34%, so he not quit shooting them
but
> > > > > > probably should do so less than he does now. IMO not 4 per game
> > like he
> > > > > > has this year.
> > > > >
> > > > > As opposed to Dirk who is also at 34% this year and also takes 4
per
> > game?
> > > >
> > > > Dirk is 37% career, this year looks like a fluke as opposed to his
> > ability
> > > > level as with Sheed.
> > > >
> > > > Now Toine Walker... :)
> > >
> > > I should add that Dirk shooting threes doesn't weaken the team's
inside
> > > game. The biggest problem I have with Sheed taking a lot of threes
(as
> > > opposed to the occasional one to stretch the interior D) is that you
> > remove
> > > a terrific inside threat in order to add a mediocre outside threat.
> >
> > This season Randolph was down on the block. Most of 'Sheeds assists
were to
> > Zach.
> > In the games game without 'Sheed Zach hardly got a touch for a game and
a
> > half.
> >
> > > Since
> > > Dirk has no post game to speak of, he is not really a comp but
somebody
> > > brought him up, I guess because he's tall.
> >
> > So why should he not be forced into developing a post game instead of
being
> > praised for his range? Not like he was making room down there for their
> > other post players.... But 'Sheed adding range and using it was
wrong;...
>
> You're preaching to the choir here, I would push him to develop a back to
> the basket game.

I was not preaching it, I was pointing out the media and leagues hyprocracy
of the praising of Dirk for his range for his size while the same was being
being used as a rip on 'Sheed.



Even though he is one of the greatest pure shooters I
> have ever seen, going in the blocks at times would make him really start
to
> look like Bird as a scorer (but not passer!).

Dirk's game is effective, why try to push him into being something he is
not?


--
Laurel T
"Wallace is a riddle wrapped in a mystery,
wrapped in a headband." S.I.
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D. Gerasimatos

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Since: Jun 09, 2004
Posts: 94



(Msg. 99) Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:42 am
Post subject: Re: 'Sheed to the hawks [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <102ql6o8l5apg57 DeleteThis @corp.supernews.com>,
Terraholm <terraholm_SpamGoAway DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Dirk's game is effective, why try to push him into being something he is
>not?


Just because it is effective does not mean it can't be better. Every
season Magic Johnson worked on adding a dimension to his game. Whether it
was free throw shooting or three point shooting, he succeeded in raising
the level of his game. Dirk is effective now, but it could be better. What
separates Wallace and Dirk from guys like Magic and Michael Jordan is that
those guys didn't *have* to be pushed to develop their games. If a guy has
to be pushed then forget it. He'll never reach that level.


Dimitri
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toad

External


Since: Oct 31, 2003
Posts: 140



(Msg. 100) Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 10:40 pm
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"Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in

>
> That game may well have been the difference
> between the playoffs and lottery. Instead of
> making up a full game on 8th
> they lost one.


it's one game. my hope is we get it together, get on a roll for the rest of
the month and more importantly in march. if we make a good run in march,
that april 10th game against denver could be the make or break point.
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Terraholm

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Since: Aug 26, 2004
Posts: 427



(Msg. 101) Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 10:40 pm
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Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"toad" <papatoad.TakeThisOut@mrstoad.com> wrote in message
news:gtxXb.6113$wD5.228@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
> "Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in
>
> >
> > That game may well have been the difference
> > between the playoffs and lottery. Instead of
> > making up a full game on 8th
> > they lost one.
>
>
> it's one game.

Was the difference from being 1 game back in the loss column from Den and 3
games back. Plus it gave them the tie breaker. Was not any 1 game...
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toad

External


Since: Oct 31, 2003
Posts: 140



(Msg. 102) Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 11:35 pm
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"Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:102t9rca23gi5a9@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "toad" <papatoad.TakeThisOut@mrstoad.com> wrote in message
> news:gtxXb.6113$wD5.228@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
> > "Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in
> >
> > >
> > > That game may well have been the difference
> > > between the playoffs and lottery. Instead of
> > > making up a full game on 8th
> > > they lost one.
> >
> >
> > it's one game.
>
> Was the difference from being 1 game back in the loss column from Den and
3
> games back. Plus it gave them the tie breaker. Was not any 1 game...

exactly, which is why yesterday's loss wasn't the straw that broke the
camel's back.
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Terraholm

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Since: Aug 26, 2004
Posts: 427



(Msg. 103) Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 11:35 pm
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"toad" <papatoad RemoveThis @mrstoad.com> wrote in message
news:mhyXb.22443$1S1.5053@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> "Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:102t9rca23gi5a9@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > "toad" <papatoad RemoveThis @mrstoad.com> wrote in message
> > news:gtxXb.6113$wD5.228@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
> > > "Terraholm" <terraholm_SpamGoAway RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in
> > >
> > > >
> > > > That game may well have been the difference
> > > > between the playoffs and lottery. Instead of
> > > > making up a full game on 8th
> > > > they lost one.
> > >
> > >
> > > it's one game.
> >
> > Was the difference from being 1 game back in the loss column from Den
and
> 3
> > games back. Plus it gave Denver the tie breaker. Was not any 1 game...
>
> exactly, which is why yesterday's loss wasn't the straw that broke the
> camel's back.

made the critter pretty lame....
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Gary Collard

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Since: Sep 02, 2003
Posts: 453



(Msg. 104) Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:02 pm
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Terraholm wrote:
>
> "Gary Collard" <garycollard.TakeThisOut@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:402D4EE0.D2EB21B8@netscape.net...
> Even though he is one of the greatest pure shooters I
> > have ever seen, going in the blocks at times would make him really start
> to
> > look like Bird as a scorer (but not passer!).
>
> Dirk's game is effective, why try to push him into being something he is
> not?

Because the Mavericks will become a better basketball team if he develops a
post game. If he played with Shaq or Duncan, it might be a different
story.

--
Gary Collard
SABR-L Moderator
gmcollard.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com

"I was making love to my wife the other night and she screamed out
'deeper, deeper.' So I started whispering Nietzsche quotes into her
ear like 'Man is a rope stretched across the abyss,' and she screamed
out 'not that deep honey, I just wanna get off!'" -- Dennis Miller
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Terraholm

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Since: Aug 26, 2004
Posts: 427



(Msg. 105) Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:02 pm
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"Gary Collard" <garycollard.TakeThisOut@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:4030E9B0.10DFF98D@netscape.net...

> >
> > Dirk's game is effective, why try to push him into being something he is
> > not?
>
> Because the Mavericks will become a better basketball team if he develops
a
> post game. If he played with Shaq or Duncan, it might be a different
> story.


Only if the transformation is successful.


--
Laurel T
"The Isaiah Rider camp,has only one camper in it."
David Kahn, Pacers GM,
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