congrats celtics fans...

VicXnews wrote:
> durrell DeleteThis @innocence.com (Bryant Durrell) wrote in
> news:7LKdnZSffqfPFMXVnZ2dnUVZ_gKdnZ2d@supernews.com:
>
>>> GO OBAMA.
>>>
>>> THAT IS THE MORE IMPORTANT CONTEST THAN THE NBA FINALS.
>>
>> I love you, man. :)
>>
>
> some of you might want to stick around for the politcal season...it
> sould start by midnight...

When we were all getting along so well? ;-)

brink
 >> Stay informed about: congrats celtics fans... 

brink wrote:
But at this point I'd call em both
> favorites to make it back and I think we'd see more closely-matched
> teams next season, too.

There are way too many question marks for both teams for them to be
favorites at this point. Kobe is planning on delaying his surgery until
after the Olympics, how will that affect the regular season? How
effective will Bynum be after his surgery? The Celtics have a number of
key role players who are FAs, will they be back? There is also the
question of Pierce's knee.

Ray

--
All generalizations are wrong.
 >> Stay informed about: congrats celtics fans... 

"brink" <brinknospam.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in news:6brp8lF3d0sjfU1
@mid.individual.net:

> VicXnews wrote:
>> durrell.RemoveThis@innocence.com (Bryant Durrell) wrote in
>> news:7LKdnZSffqfPFMXVnZ2dnUVZ_gKdnZ2d@supernews.com:
>>
>>>> GO OBAMA.
>>>>
>>>> THAT IS THE MORE IMPORTANT CONTEST THAN THE NBA FINALS.
>>>
>>> I love you, man. :)
>>>
>>
>> some of you might want to stick around for the politcal season...it
>> sould start by midnight...
>
> When we were all getting along so well? ;-)
>
> brink
>

why end the fun...
 >> Stay informed about: congrats celtics fans... 

On Jun 18, 10:17 am, theBZA <dewey3kNOS... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> HS <h.shiva... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in news:e0b1ea37-039d-4180-87c7-
> 24439d994... RemoveThis @a9g2000prl.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 18, 8:53 am, "Skeptic" <bcs0... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> " bozak" <________boz... RemoveThis @gmail.com________> wrote in message
>
> >>news:Xx%5k.43388$Xu2.30808@trnddc04...
>
> >> > you had the better team by far this year...
>
> >> > i have a feeling we will be doing this all over again next year...
>
> >> > im looking forward to it... :-)
>
> >> I think the Celtics will. I doubt the Lakers will.
>
> > The Celtics have some good young players who will likely improve next
> > year.
> > But then, the Lakers have some decent young players as well who will
> > likely improve.
> > Our second best player has only been with us for half a season. And
> > our potentially best starting 5 have never played together.
>
> This made me think about how long players have been with teams. It's
> amazing actually. Most of the Celtic players came to the team this year.
> Not counting rookies, they have 7 players on their final 15 man roster
> who were acquired this year. Add in the 2 rookies and that's more than
> 50% of the roster. Even counting Derek Fisher, the Lakers only have 5
> non-rookies in their first year on the team, and two of them were
> acquired in mid-season trades necessitated by the Bynum injury.
>
> Pierce has been a Celtic for 9 years, Perkins for 5 and Tony Allen for
> 4. That's the core of their team. Major contributors like Ray Allen,
> Garnett, House, and important secondary contributors like Cassell and
> Brown - all of them were acquired this season.
>
> I'm not making a judgement here - but I am wondering how Celtic fans
> feel about their team. I've never rooted for a team that was slapped
> together like this - usually the teams I root for are built over several
> seasons and work their way into the elite of their league. This Celtics
> team was essentially purchased and they took the second-to-worst team in
> the league to Champs in one season.
>
> You know, you root for guys for many years and you develope a
> relationship with them. It's a one-sided relationship to be sure, but I
> cannot imagine having half the roster replaced in one fell swoop and
> being really pumped about the team. I think for me, there would be an
> emptiness to it.
>
> --
There was definitely reservations among Celtics fans about the trades
that brought in Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett. Players like West,
Jefferson and Gomes were very likable players and the first two
especially look to have an NBA future that is at least solid and
possibly spectacular.

But the way this team is built is no different than any other NBA
champion of the past 15 years or so. Get a core player or two and
build around them. The Los Angeles champions from the early 2000s are
the prime example of this...they didn't draft any of the core players
on those teams. They made deals and took advantage of free agency. The
only difference is Boston had more success more quickly.

"Draft, development and deals" was Ainge's mantra from day one. Ainge
built around Pierce, kept the draft picks he felt served the team
(notice they were the ones who showed defensive acumen: Perkins,
Rondo, Tony Allen...) and traded the others for veterans ready to win.
He happened to get 2 of the best, and of course the inevitable key
role players followed the opportunity to win a championship.

To say Boston was "purchased" as distinction from other franchises
isn't accurate. Other teams have tried it and haven't gotten over the
top. (Dallas, New Jersey...or the Knicks!) The early returns on the
investment is a testament to the Boston Celtics organization, which is
ultimately what any C's fan roots for over a player.
 >> Stay informed about: congrats celtics fans... 

On Jun 18, 12:15 pm, theBZA <dewey3kNOS... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> mcnois <mcn... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote innews:9eea1bca-6039-4436-8190-3595a59b0627@34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 18, 10:17 am, theBZA <dewey3kNOS... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> >> HS <h.shiva... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in news:e0b1ea37-039d-4180-87c7-
> >> 24439d994... RemoveThis @a9g2000prl.googlegroups.com:
>
> >> > On Jun 18, 8:53 am, "Skeptic" <bcs0... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >> " bozak" <________boz... RemoveThis @gmail.com________> wrote in message
>
> >> >>news:Xx%5k.43388$Xu2.30808@trnddc04...
>
> >> >> > you had the better team by far this year...
>
> >> >> > i have a feeling we will be doing this all over again next
> >> >> > year...
>
> >> >> > im looking forward to it... :-)
>
> >> >> I think the Celtics will. I doubt the Lakers will.
>
> >> > The Celtics have some good young players who will likely improve
> >> > next year.
> >> > But then, the Lakers have some decent young players as well who
> >> > will likely improve.
> >> > Our second best player has only been with us for half a season. And
> >> > our potentially best starting 5 have never played together.
>
> >> This made me think about how long players have been with teams. It's
> >> amazing actually. Most of the Celtic players came to the team this
> >> year. Not counting rookies, they have 7 players on their final 15 man
> >> roster who were acquired this year. Add in the 2 rookies and that's
> >> more than 50% of the roster. Even counting Derek Fisher, the Lakers
> >> only have 5 non-rookies in their first year on the team, and two of
> >> them were acquired in mid-season trades necessitated by the Bynum
> >> injury.
>
> >> Pierce has been a Celtic for 9 years, Perkins for 5 and Tony Allen
> >> for 4. That's the core of their team. Major contributors like Ray
> >> Allen, Garnett, House, and important secondary contributors like
> >> Cassell and Brown - all of them were acquired this season.
>
> >> I'm not making a judgement here - but I am wondering how Celtic fans
> >> feel about their team. I've never rooted for a team that was slapped
> >> together like this - usually the teams I root for are built over
> >> several seasons and work their way into the elite of their league.
> >> This Celtics team was essentially purchased and they took the
> >> second-to-worst team in the league to Champs in one season.
>
> >> You know, you root for guys for many years and you develope a
> >> relationship with them. It's a one-sided relationship to be sure, but
> >> I cannot imagine having half the roster replaced in one fell swoop
> >> and being really pumped about the team. I think for me, there would
> >> be an emptiness to it.
>
> >> --
> > There was definitely reservations among Celtics fans about the trades
> > that brought in Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett. Players like West,
> > Jefferson and Gomes were very likable players and the first two
> > especially look to have an NBA future that is at least solid and
> > possibly spectacular.
>
> > But the way this team is built is no different than any other NBA
> > champion of the past 15 years or so. Get a core player or two and
> > build around them. The Los Angeles champions from the early 2000s are
> > the prime example of this...they didn't draft any of the core players
> > on those teams. They made deals and took advantage of free agency. The
> > only difference is Boston had more success more quickly.
>
> But they did play together as a team for several seasons, making it
> further each year before finally putting it all together.
>
And it's too bad for them they weren't able to cohere as quickly.

> > "Draft, development and deals" was Ainge's mantra from day one. Ainge
>
> Yet half his team was acquired this season. Do it seems that "deals" is
> really what made the difference.

But the deals could not have happened without the draft and
development components.
>
> > built around Pierce, kept the draft picks he felt served the team
> > (notice they were the ones who showed defensive acumen: Perkins,
> > Rondo, Tony Allen...) and traded the others for veterans ready to win.
> > He happened to get 2 of the best, and of course the inevitable key
> > role players followed the opportunity to win a championship.
>
> > To say Boston was "purchased" as distinction from other franchises
> > isn't accurate. Other teams have tried it and haven't gotten over the
> > top. (Dallas, New Jersey...or the Knicks!) The early returns on the
> > investment is a testament to the Boston Celtics organization, which is
> > ultimately what any C's fan roots for over a player.
>
> I don't recall the Mavs or Nets ever turning half their roster over in a
> single off season. Maybe my memory is failing. Could you remind me when
> that happened?
>
The 2001-02 Nets that lost in the NBA finals had 12 players on their
roster that weren't there the previous season: Jason Kidd, Richard
Jefferson, Lucious Harris, Todd MacCulloch, Jason Collins, Anthony
Johnson, Derrick Dial, Brandon Armstrong, Donny Marshall, Reggie
Slater and Steve Goodric.

The 2000-01 Mavericks won 53 games with 13 players on the roster who
weren't there for the 40-42 campaign the previous year: Howard Eisley,
Juwan Howard, Christian Laettner, Courtney Alexander, Eduardo Najera,
Loy Vaught, Calvin Booth, Vernon Maxwell, Wang Zhizhi, Donnell Harvey,
Mark Bryant, Bill Curley, Obinna Ekezie.

In addition to Shaquille O'Neal, the 1996-97 Lakers sported 11 other
players who didn't play in LA the year prior (although that was a 53
win team): Kobe Bryant, Byron Scott, Jerome Kersey, Travis Knight,
Derek Fisher, Sean Rooks, Robert Horry, George McCloud, Rumeal
Robinson, Joe Kleine, Larry Krystowiak.

How about the 1997-98 Spurs getting 56 wins on the strength of seven
new players from their 20 win campaign the previous year: Tim Duncan,
Jaren Jackson, Chuck Person, Malik Rose, Reggie Geary, Willie Burton,
Brad Lohaus?
 >> Stay informed about: congrats celtics fans... 

On Jun 18, 12:09 pm, d... DeleteThis @soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (D. Gerasimatos)
wrote:
> In article <Xns9AC168B8AC82Ddewey3kNOSPAMgmai... DeleteThis @130.133.1.4>,
>
> theBZA <dewey3kNOS... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >This made me think about how long players have been with teams. It's
> >amazing actually. Most of the Celtic players came to the team this year.
> >Not counting rookies, they have 7 players on their final 15 man roster
> >who were acquired this year. Add in the 2 rookies and that's more than
> >50% of the roster. Even counting Derek Fisher, the Lakers only have 5
> >non-rookies in their first year on the team, and two of them were
> >acquired in mid-season trades necessitated by the Bynum injury.
>
> Yes, Boston was a team of "team-first" (ha!) mercenaries. Pierce really
> went through a lot over there, but everyone else was there was their own
> personal glory.
>
> >I'm not making a judgement here - but I am wondering how Celtic fans
> >feel about their team.
>
> I already asked that question in this group and got some honest responses.
>
> I, too, don't really feel like this was a case of a team working hard and
> finally breaking through. Boston was in the lottery last year. How can you
> really feel appreciation for what they accomplished when, for instance,
> I watched Sam Cassell play all season long for the Clippers.
>
Exactly because we were watching a "team" working hard and breaking
through. The process began 5 season ago when new ownership came in and
gave the keys to Ainge, who hired Rivers. They all believed in Paul
Pierce as the cornerstone of a championship team. It's been a very
satisfying process to watch.
 >> Stay informed about: congrats celtics fans... 

On Jun 18, 10:17 am, theBZA <dewey3kNOS....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> This made me think about how long players have been with teams. It's
> amazing actually. Most of the Celtic players came to the team this year.
> Not counting rookies, they have 7 players on their final 15 man roster
> who were acquired this year. Add in the 2 rookies and that's more than
> 50% of the roster. Even counting Derek Fisher, the Lakers only have 5
> non-rookies in their first year on the team, and two of them were
> acquired in mid-season trades necessitated by the Bynum injury.
>
> Pierce has been a Celtic for 9 years, Perkins for 5 and Tony Allen for
> 4. That's the core of their team. Major contributors like Ray Allen,
> Garnett, House, and important secondary contributors like Cassell and
> Brown - all of them were acquired this season.
>
> I'm not making a judgement here - but I am wondering how Celtic fans
> feel about their team. I've never rooted for a team that was slapped
> together like this - usually the teams I root for are built over several
> seasons and work their way into the elite of their league. This Celtics
> team was essentially purchased and they took the second-to-worst team in
> the league to Champs in one season.
>
> You know, you root for guys for many years and you develope a
> relationship with them. It's a one-sided relationship to be sure, but I
> cannot imagine having half the roster replaced in one fell swoop and
> being really pumped about the team. I think for me, there would be an
> emptiness to it.
>
> --
> Are you Evolved?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


Purchased? This is rich coming from a Yankees fan.
 >> Stay informed about: congrats celtics fans... 

In article <Xns9AC17C53F3095dewey3kNOSPAMgmailco.DeleteThis@130.133.1.4>,
theBZA <dewey3kNOSPAM.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>> What are the Lakers going to do if they don't win it next year? I
>> hear Kobe's contract is up in '09. Oh, hey, so is Bynum's. Am I
>> wrong, or do y'all have about one more year to win it before that
>> party collapses?
>>
>OH heavens! Two free agents in the same year. I see how that's the same
>as half your twelve-man roster.

You're missing the point. Kobe's gonna want out if you don't win it
all next year. For all the much-vaunted youth of the Lakers, your
key player is itchy for a championship.

--
Bryant Durrell // durrell.DeleteThis@innocence.com // durrell.DeleteThis@gmail.com
 >> Stay informed about: congrats celtics fans... 

Raymond DeCampo wrote:
> brink wrote:
> But at this point I'd call em both
>> favorites to make it back and I think we'd see more closely-matched
>> teams next season, too.
>
> There are way too many question marks for both teams for them to be
> favorites at this point. Kobe is planning on delaying his surgery
> until after the Olympics, how will that affect the regular season? How
> effective will Bynum be after his surgery? The Celtics have a
> number of key role players who are FAs, will they be back? There is
> also the question of Pierce's knee.

Don't get me wrong, "favorites" doesn't mean "more likely to happen than
not," it just means I think they have better chances than their conference
opponents, IMO. In a totally rough, back-of-the-napkin way, I might put it
like this:

EC
Boston 40%
Detroit 25%
Orlando 20%
Cleveland 10%
field 5%

WC
LA 35%
SA 20%
NO 15%
Utah 15%
Rockets 5%
field 10%

So there's no runaway favorite -- even Boston with the best odds still has
less than an even chance of making it back to the Finals by my estimation.
It's not because they're not a great team -- they are -- it's just, as you
point out, there are WAY too many x-factors to accurately predict, and
things just have a way of happening... they both were one of those "field"
teams last year at this time, for example...

brink
 >> Stay informed about: congrats celtics fans... 

Bryant Durrell wrote:
> In article <Xns9AC17C53F3095dewey3kNOSPAMgmailco DeleteThis @130.133.1.4>,
> theBZA <dewey3kNOSPAM DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>>> What are the Lakers going to do if they don't win it next year? I
>>> hear Kobe's contract is up in '09. Oh, hey, so is Bynum's. Am I
>>> wrong, or do y'all have about one more year to win it before that
>>> party collapses?
>>>
>> OH heavens! Two free agents in the same year. I see how that's the
>> same as half your twelve-man roster.
>
> You're missing the point. Kobe's gonna want out if you don't win it
> all next year. For all the much-vaunted youth of the Lakers, your
> key player is itchy for a championship.

We're all hoping and I'm guessing he realizes that his best chances are
winning a title are right here in LA. He has a team likely peaking in the
next few seasons and it just got ahead of schedule by going ahead and
getting to the Finals and winning a couple games there.

The bigger question is whether Buss will be willing to pay everyone but I
think he's showing that he's willing to do so...

brink
 >> Stay informed about: congrats celtics fans... 

HS <h.shivanan RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in news:e0b1ea37-039d-4180-87c7-
24439d994d3a RemoveThis @a9g2000prl.googlegroups.com:

> On Jun 18, 8:53 am, "Skeptic" <bcs0... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>> " bozak" <________boz... RemoveThis @gmail.com________> wrote in message
>>
>> news:Xx%5k.43388$Xu2.30808@trnddc04...
>>
>> > you had the better team by far this year...
>>
>> > i have a feeling we will be doing this all over again next year...
>>
>> > im looking forward to it...  :-)
>>
>> I think the Celtics will.  I doubt the Lakers will.
>
> The Celtics have some good young players who will likely improve next
> year.
> But then, the Lakers have some decent young players as well who will
> likely improve.
> Our second best player has only been with us for half a season. And
> our potentially best starting 5 have never played together.
>
This made me think about how long players have been with teams. It's
amazing actually. Most of the Celtic players came to the team this year.
Not counting rookies, they have 7 players on their final 15 man roster
who were acquired this year. Add in the 2 rookies and that's more than
50% of the roster. Even counting Derek Fisher, the Lakers only have 5
non-rookies in their first year on the team, and two of them were
acquired in mid-season trades necessitated by the Bynum injury.

Pierce has been a Celtic for 9 years, Perkins for 5 and Tony Allen for
4. That's the core of their team. Major contributors like Ray Allen,
Garnett, House, and important secondary contributors like Cassell and
Brown - all of them were acquired this season.

I'm not making a judgement here - but I am wondering how Celtic fans
feel about their team. I've never rooted for a team that was slapped
together like this - usually the teams I root for are built over several
seasons and work their way into the elite of their league. This Celtics
team was essentially purchased and they took the second-to-worst team in
the league to Champs in one season.

You know, you root for guys for many years and you develope a
relationship with them. It's a one-sided relationship to be sure, but I
cannot imagine having half the roster replaced in one fell swoop and
being really pumped about the team. I think for me, there would be an
emptiness to it.


--
Are you Evolved?
 >> Stay informed about: congrats celtics fans... 

In article <Xns9AC168B8AC82Ddewey3kNOSPAMgmailco DeleteThis @130.133.1.4>,
theBZA <dewey3kNOSPAM DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
>This made me think about how long players have been with teams. It's
>amazing actually. Most of the Celtic players came to the team this year.
>Not counting rookies, they have 7 players on their final 15 man roster
>who were acquired this year. Add in the 2 rookies and that's more than
>50% of the roster. Even counting Derek Fisher, the Lakers only have 5
>non-rookies in their first year on the team, and two of them were
>acquired in mid-season trades necessitated by the Bynum injury.


Yes, Boston was a team of "team-first" (ha!) mercenaries. Pierce really
went through a lot over there, but everyone else was there was their own
personal glory.


>I'm not making a judgement here - but I am wondering how Celtic fans
>feel about their team.


I already asked that question in this group and got some honest responses.


I, too, don't really feel like this was a case of a team working hard and
finally breaking through. Boston was in the lottery last year. How can you
really feel appreciation for what they accomplished when, for instance,
I watched Sam Cassell play all season long for the Clippers.


Dimitri
 >> Stay informed about: congrats celtics fans... 

"theBZA" <dewey3kNOSPAM RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9AC170B1DF881dewey3kNOSPAMgmailco@130.133.1.4...
>
> BTW, what are the Celtics going to do with all their upcoming FAs? T
> Allen, Brown, Powe, House, Cassell and Pollard are all FAs now. Pollard
> is probably a goner, I'd let him go, but the others? C's could see half
> their roster turn over again this off season.

No matter what happens this off season, the C's will still be better than LA
next season.
 >> Stay informed about: congrats celtics fans...