Who calls the shots?

On Jul 15, 3:29 pm, Dan Gaters <dan.gat... RemoveThis @earthlink.net> wrote:
> Glenn Greenstein:
>
> > So watching him work out in a private session does not count for seeing him
> > play?
>
> OK, for the last time, watching a VIDEO of Grand Canyon is not the same as
> experiencing it IN PERSON.

Hey Dan, I've seen the Grand Canyon on TV and in person. You know what
I learned by seeing it in person? That the Japanese tourists in my
group had a death wish because they walked right up to about 6 inches
from the edge so they could lean over and look down to the bottom.
Hey Dan, how do most pro teams prepare for upcoming opponents? Could
it be by watching game film?
>
> The most prominent draft pick in nearly two decades was decided upon without
> either the GM or the coach ever seeing him in action, live, in person. The
> only one who did that and then recommended him was your friend Isiah Lord
> Thomas III.
>
> If you can't grok the significance of this, I give up.

Your point being it was Thomas's decision alone to OK this pick?
No matter what you want to think Dan, this was a Walsh pick in the end
and if Danilo is a bust, it will be on him, not Thomas.
>
> DG
 >> Stay informed about: Who calls the shots? 

Capn'O:

> I would think it's pretty typical for scouts to be the main people
> with "in game" knowledge of the players

And who's that "scout"?

DG
 >> Stay informed about: Who calls the shots? 

On Jul 15, 7:17 pm, "Capn'O" <dan.zin... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:

> > Or the Pistons saw Darko Milicic.
>
> Or (to provide a middle ground) the Kings saw Hedo...

The ratio of Euros that became superstars versus those who became
nobody outside of Europe is still highly skewed toward the latter.
Mix that middle ground with real-world numbers.
 >> Stay informed about: Who calls the shots? 

On Jul 15, 7:31 pm, "Capn'O" <dan.zin....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:

> > OK, for the last time, watching a VIDEO of Grand Canyon is not the same as
> > experiencing it IN PERSON.
>
> But they did see him IN PERSON in a PRE-DRAFT WORK OUT

There's apparently a bone of contention about that, but I'll leave
that to you, Dan, and the beat writers.

> where they
> INTERVIEWED HIM and RAN HIM THROUGH DRILLS.

What I will say is that if you've endured a year of suckage to get a
draft pick, let's hope you put more time and consideration into it
than watching a few videos and listening to what Isiah says.

I didn't see any of Gallinari's games from the Italian league, but
between the reports and what was on display in game 1, he's a personal-
offense-first, team-and-playbook-second, defense-challenged player.

(And Isiah picked him? You don't say).

I'll hold off on making any definitive statements until I've seen more
than one game, but from what all indications I have, I've got enough
of that already on the roster, thank you. We've already got Marbury,
Crawford, Richardson, Randolph, and Curry on our roster to occupy that
me-first territory...what's that you say? That was the starting
lineup last year and it may be again?

Exactly. We haven't even gotten to bench guys like Nate Robinson.
Ugh.
 >> Stay informed about: Who calls the shots? 

Glenn Greenstein:

> Hey Dan, I've seen the Grand Canyon on TV and in person. You know what
> I learned by seeing it in person? That the Japanese tourists in my
> group had a death wish...

If that's all you got, it's truly sad.

> Hey Dan, how do most pro teams prepare for upcoming opponents?

This being about basketball...if video was all that teams needed we wouldn't
even have scouts, would we? Get serious.

> Your point being it was Thomas's decision alone to OK this pick?

No.

> No matter what you want to think Dan, this was a Walsh pick in the end
> and if Danilo is a bust, it will be on him, not Thomas.

And that's the point. The question is for you to ponder: how does a GM draft
at the 6th spot (something akin to a meteorite for the Knicks) without
seeing the player in person himself (or via his coach) AND rely on someone
named Isiah Lord Thomas III who did?

Since you seemed to have missed it, this wasn't about Isiah Lord Thomas III,
it was about Walshy.

DG
 >> Stay informed about: Who calls the shots? 

Noah:

> What I will say is that if you've endured a year of suckage to get a
> draft pick, let's hope you put more time and consideration into it
> than watching a few videos and listening to what Isiah says.

My God, if I were the GM or the coach of a team that so desperately needs
good players and has been without such a high draft picks for years, I'd be
practically glued to the potential picks. Just what other important
diversions did these gentlemen have so that the apparently unimportant task
of seeing him play in person was left to the great basketball mind of Isiah
Lord Thomas III? Boggles the mind.

DG
 >> Stay informed about: Who calls the shots? 

"Dan Gaters" <dan.gaters.DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:C4A2D81B.2F7B8%dan.gaters@earthlink.net...
> Glenn Greenstein:
>
>> Hey Dan, I've seen the Grand Canyon on TV and in person. You know what
>> I learned by seeing it in person? That the Japanese tourists in my
>> group had a death wish...
>
> If that's all you got, it's truly sad.

Prior to seeing the Grand Canyon, I have been to National Parks such as
Bryce, Yellowstone, and Yosemeti. It wasn't the fist time I have seen
something like that. Actually for beauty, Bryce had the Grand Canyon beat. I
have also seen the Pyramids and Sphinx in Eygpt (one day from a cruise
ship), the Roman Collisium, The Domo <sp>, Statue of David, The Vatican
where I must have climbed 1000 steps or more to the top, The Parthanon and
Temple of Diane, The Eifle Tower, Notre Dame, Arc of the Triumph, Big Ben,
The Tower Bridge and Tower of London which holds the Crown Jewels, and last
but not least Venice where I stayed in a hotel next to St. Marks Sq.
Sorry Dan, the Grand Canyon is an awesome sight, but whe you are as well
traveled as I am, not everything takes your breath away.
>
>> Hey Dan, how do most pro teams prepare for upcoming opponents?
>
> This being about basketball...if video was all that teams needed we
> wouldn't
> even have scouts, would we? Get serious.

Tell me what you can glean from being at a game that you can't from video?
IMO, for scouting purposes, video is better than watching live because with
video, you can rewind things, use slow motion, and basically can just see
everything better, or do the scouts run up and down the side lines so the
have a consistant view of the players. Hell, I would bet they are not even
sitting in the first 5 rows.
Also, this whole argument is stupid because they did see him in a pre draft
work out. I think personally working a player, telling him to do what you
want to see has a lot of value.
>
>> Your point being it was Thomas's decision alone to OK this pick?
>
> No.
>
>> No matter what you want to think Dan, this was a Walsh pick in the end
>> and if Danilo is a bust, it will be on him, not Thomas.
>
> And that's the point. The question is for you to ponder: how does a GM
> draft
> at the 6th spot (something akin to a meteorite for the Knicks) without
> seeing the player in person himself (or via his coach) AND rely on someone
> named Isiah Lord Thomas III who did?
>
> Since you seemed to have missed it, this wasn't about Isiah Lord Thomas
> III,
> it was about Walshy.

Like I said Dan and as Capt has also said. Very few GM's and coaches go to
abroad to scout a player. I would bet actually none of them do. For that
matter, how often do you see NBA coaches let alone GM's go to High School
and College games here in the states.
>
> DG
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Who calls the shots? 

On Jul 16, 1:06 am, Noah <dontsendmeyers....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 15, 7:17 pm, "Capn'O" <dan.zin....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Or the Pistons saw Darko Milicic.
>
> > Or (to provide a middle ground) the Kings saw Hedo...
>
> The ratio of Euros that became superstars versus those who became
> nobody outside of Europe is still highly skewed toward the latter.

That's true of "players in the draft" in general, no? A lot of second
rounders in that mix.

Lottery picks over the past 10 years include

Bargs
Sefolosha
Korolev (who?)
Pietrus
Biedrins
Skita
Gasol
Darko
Radmanovic
Alek R something - doesn't matter, total bust

So of that list:

Dirk is a near superstar

Gasol is a secondary star

Biedrins, Sefolosha, Radmanovic, Pietrus, Darko, and maybe Bargs are
serviceable to good

and Skita, Alek, and Korolev are total busts...

Seems about par for the course via American born and bred.
 >> Stay informed about: Who calls the shots? 

On Jul 16, 1:14 am, Noah <dontsendmeyers... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 15, 7:31 pm, "Capn'O" <dan.zin... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > OK, for the last time, watching a VIDEO of Grand Canyon is not the same as
> > > experiencing it IN PERSON.
>
> > But they did see him IN PERSON in a PRE-DRAFT WORK OUT
>
> There's apparently a bone of contention about that, but I'll leave
> that to you, Dan, and the beat writers.

Nah, they watched the Danilo Gallinari Workout video. He's the new
Richard Simmons!
 >> Stay informed about: Who calls the shots? 

On Jul 16, 1:14 am, Noah <dontsendmeyers... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:

> What I will say is that if you've endured a year of suckage to get a
> draft pick, let's hope you put more time and consideration into it
> than watching a few videos and listening to what Isiah says.

What the NY Times writer is talking about has to be live _in game_
action. THAT they have not seen and Isiah presumably has. He was
definitely here for a work-out and viewed by Donald "Donnie" Walsh and
Michael "Mike" D'Antoni in person.

Now, the question is, which is more important for your draft analysis:
Game tape + workout + interview or live scouting?
Each GM probably has own set of practices and policies about that...
 >> Stay informed about: Who calls the shots?