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topcat

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Since: Aug 24, 2004
Posts: 134



(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon May 17, 2004 11:11 am
Post subject: So, anybody have anything to say about game 6?
Archived from groups: alt>sports>basketball>nba>det-pistons, others (more info?)

Or the impending game 7?

Game 6 was ugly. Very ugly. Resembled mud wrestling more than basketball.

I'm disappointed the NETS couldn't get over the hump after falling behind so
big.

Am I the only one noticing that Aaron Williams looks totally overmatched out
there? This may be the worst I've seen him play during his stint with the
NETS.

Guess Larry Brown finally came to his senses and realized Okur's size might
actually be able to help the Pistons.

Now for another of the patented 4 day NBA playoff vacations. It's going to
be a loooong week.

TC - off formulating his predictions for game 7

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Terraholm

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Since: Aug 26, 2004
Posts: 427



(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue May 18, 2004 7:34 am
Post subject: Re: So, anybody have anything to say about game 6? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"topcat" wrote in message

>
> "jslater" wrote:
> >

> > The game wouldn't have been as close as it was if the Pistons could
> > shoot free throws better. I sometimes wonder why, in close games,
> > opponents don't use a "hack-a-Ben" strategy.
> >
>
> I think it's because the Pistons are smart enough to not give Ben the ball
> that much in that situation.
>

Before the 2 minute mark they could foul him off the ball.
More likely because it has not been proven to work, even though on the
surface it looks like it should.

All of the times used against Shaq it worked once that I remember, and then
he was fouled twice before the 2 minute mark to *protect a lead* and stop
momentum when Kobe was taking over the game. I do not even remember a team
closing the gap much when behind including the Spurs in game 6.

Ben too at 48% in the playoffs is likely to make at least one. Like Shaq if
he knows it is coming he may make a higher percentage after the first trip
to the line.

And the main reason it does not work when the team is behind is it hurts the
offense...especially a running team.
With a team like the lakers or pistons, with a very good half court defense,
you are giving them the opportunity almost every possession be set up
defensively and are reduced to a half court offense.
It takes all chance of early offense or a fast break except off a long
rebound from a missed FT. And even those long rebounds have a problem as the
pistons or lakers may get the rebound and an added possession

So you instead of trading 2 for 1 you may even be reducing the average of 1
point per possession on your team's end and using more clock, while likely
giving Shaq or Ben's team that average 1 point with the clock stopped.


--
Laurel T
"I told him, 'Coach, there's an ocean out there.
Let me go swimming,"' Bonzi Wells

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Tutor

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Since: May 12, 2004
Posts: 18



(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue May 18, 2004 9:58 am
Post subject: Re: So, anybody have anything to say about game 6? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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jslater wrote:


>
> Brian S's late-game heroics in OT notwithstanding, the Nets are
> clearly overmatched at center by not only Detroit but every other
> upper-echelon team in the league. It's not realistic to think you're
> going to have superstars at every position (although the Lakers come
> close), but surely NJ could improve here.


Well, Rod Thorn gambled on Alonzo Mourning and ended up with
nothing more than a transplanted kidney and millions in wasted
guaranteed money. Biggest mistake in many years by the Nets FO.
Rumor is that Mourning was signed due to the persistent urging of
Kidd. Big mistake.
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jslater

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Since: Mar 11, 2004
Posts: 50



(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue May 18, 2004 12:07 pm
Post subject: Re: So, anybody have anything to say about game 6? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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> > > The game wouldn't have been as close as it was if the Pistons could
> > > shoot free throws better. I sometimes wonder why, in close games,
> > > opponents don't use a "hack-a-Ben" strategy.
> > >
> More likely because it has not been proven to work, even though on the
> surface it looks like it should.

> And the main reason it does not work when the team is behind is it hurts the
> offense...especially a running team.
> With a team like the lakers or pistons, with a very good half court defense,
> you are giving them the opportunity almost every possession be set up
> defensively and are reduced to a half court offense.
> It takes all chance of early offense or a fast break except off a long
> rebound from a missed FT. And even those long rebounds have a problem as the
> pistons or lakers may get the rebound and an added possession
>
> So you instead of trading 2 for 1 you may even be reducing the average of 1
> point per possession on your team's end and using more clock, while likely
> giving Shaq or Ben's team that average 1 point with the clock stopped.

That's an excellent point, and you're almost certainly right.--Joe
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Terraholm

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Since: Aug 26, 2004
Posts: 427



(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue May 18, 2004 12:55 pm
Post subject: Re: So, anybody have anything to say about game 6? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"jslater" wrote in message

> > There have only been two close games and one of them was triple
over-time so
> > that at least led to suspense.

> > And don't get me started on the NETS and free throws...
>
> They're shooting a better percentage than Detroit is, aren't they?
> Certainly for the last two close games when it would matter ....
>

It is a wash really. Nets get to the line a little more since these totals
are for 1 more game.
Playoffs Nets 225-308 .731 Pistons 222-298 .745

The OT3 game was nets 42-55 76% and Pistons 30-42 71% (Ben 4-12) and game 6
Detroit 12-22 54% (Ben 2-6) and Nets 19-26 73%


--
Laurel T
A coach after being informed, that like
players, their drug tests would include
banned performance enhancing drugs:
"Does that include Viagra?"
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hol99

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Since: Jun 07, 2004
Posts: 16



(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 2:05 pm
Post subject: Re: So, anybody have anything to say about game 6? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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I don't get why guys who play bball for a living can't hit free throws. I
think I could hit 70% if I played everyday. I can understand Shaq, because
he has a mongoloid's head, and his eyes are too close together. He probably
sees two baskets and should shoot at a spot between the two of them. But
anyone else should be able to at least hit 6 out of 10.

Dave

> I love Ben to death, but I really wish he could shoot free throws.
> > >
> > Right. That's why I said Aaron Williams has to step up in game 7.
Especially
> > if he's guarded the way you describe above. He can hit the mid-range
jumper
> > with consistency when he's playing well, but so far he isn't.
>
> As game 5 showed, if the Nets can get significant production out of
> that position, they will be hard to beat.
> > >
> > > The problem is, it's hard to predict when Detroit will and won't shoot
> > > well.
> > >
> > Both teams have looked good at times and both teams have looked
horrendous
> > at times. Guess that's why it's even now.
>
> Yeah, and why game 7 is so hard to predict. A couple of games ago, I
> could have said, hey, home court advantage, but now ....?
> > > >
> > > Oh, I'm sure whoever loses will have excuses ;-) ....--Joe
> >
> > Does this mean I'm going to have to read about "Rasheed's foot" on
Friday
> > morning??? ;-)
> >
> > TC
>
> If the Pistons lose, I'll probably be in mourning (not Alonzo) too
> much to post as early as Friday morning. So I'll say in advance, in
> case Detroit loses: it was Rasheed's foot, Chauncey's back, lousy
> refereeing, um, the other shooter on the grassy knoll, evil space
> aliens, and/or a vast international conspiracy. Or maybe I'll just
> use Rasheed's line: it was a great game and both teams played hard.
>
> One more question, entirely unrelated to game 7. What do you think of
> the new Nets ownership and move to Brooklyn?--Joe
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topcat

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Since: Aug 24, 2004
Posts: 134



(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 2:58 pm
Post subject: Re: So, anybody have anything to say about game 6? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"jslater" wrote:
<snip>
> If the Pistons lose, I'll probably be in mourning (not Alonzo) too
> much to post as early as Friday morning. So I'll say in advance, in
> case Detroit loses: it was Rasheed's foot, Chauncey's back, lousy
> refereeing, um, the other shooter on the grassy knoll, evil space
> aliens, and/or a vast international conspiracy. Or maybe I'll just
> use Rasheed's line: it was a great game and both teams played hard.
>

Well at least you're getting it all out now.


> One more question, entirely unrelated to game 7. What do you think of
> the new Nets ownership and move to Brooklyn?--Joe

Don't like them or it at all. How can you take a guy named "RATner"
seriously? Wasn't there a RATner in "Fast Times at Ridgemont High"? If not,
there should have been.

When (and if) the NETS move, I doubt I'll make the trek out to Brooklyn to
see any games. Too much of a PITA to get there from where I live.

TC
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jslater

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Since: Mar 11, 2004
Posts: 50



(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 3:49 pm
Post subject: Re: So, anybody have anything to say about game 6? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"topcat" wrote in message ...
> "jslater" wrote:
> <snip>
> > If the Pistons lose, I'll probably be in mourning (not Alonzo) too
> > much to post as early as Friday morning. So I'll say in advance, in
> > case Detroit loses: it was Rasheed's foot, Chauncey's back, lousy
> > refereeing, um, the other shooter on the grassy knoll, evil space
> > aliens, and/or a vast international conspiracy. Or maybe I'll just
> > use Rasheed's line: it was a great game and both teams played hard.
> >
>
> Well at least you're getting it all out now.

Sure. But be advised that if the PISTONS win game 7, then it will all
be due to their brilliance, guts, mad skilllllzzzzzzz, and of course
support from their fans on the internet. That's just how it works.
>
> > One more question, entirely unrelated to game 7. What do you think of
> > the new Nets ownership and move to Brooklyn?--Joe
>
> Don't like them or it at all. How can you take a guy named "RATner"
> seriously? Wasn't there a RATner in "Fast Times at Ridgemont High"? If not,
> there should have been.
>
> When (and if) the NETS move, I doubt I'll make the trek out to Brooklyn to
> see any games. Too much of a PITA to get there from where I live.
>
> TC

Will their games still be on TV in NJ?--Joe (n.j.) [mWo]
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topcat

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Since: Aug 24, 2004
Posts: 134



(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 4:29 pm
Post subject: Re: So, anybody have anything to say about game 6? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Terraholm" wrote:
>
> Small note...I am a she type person named Laurel
>

Oh, in that case, you are now "Queen of the Stats" (similar to "Czar of the
Telestrator")

> > aliens, and/or a vast international conspiracy. Or maybe I'll just
> > use Rasheed's line: it was a great game and both teams played hard.
>
> You forgot ...."God bless and Good Night"
>

God Bless us all, everyone...

TC
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Terraholm

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Since: Aug 26, 2004
Posts: 427



(Msg. 10) Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 4:29 pm
Post subject: Re: So, anybody have anything to say about game 6? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"topcat" wrote in message

>
> "Terraholm" wrote:
> >
> > Small note...I am a she type person named Laurel
> >
>
> Oh, in that case, you are now "Queen of the Stats" (similar to "Czar of
the
> Telestrator")

Oh dear doG....with that comparison I may have to shoot myself... =)

--
Laurel T
"New Jersey is completely different from
Utah. 'Brother' in Utah and 'brother' in
New Jersey are entirely different concepts."
Rick Majerus on Van Horn being drafted by the Nets
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topcat

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Since: Aug 24, 2004
Posts: 134



(Msg. 11) Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 7:32 pm
Post subject: Re: So, anybody have anything to say about game 6? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"jslater" wrote:

>
> Sure. But be advised that if the PISTONS win game 7, then it will all
> be due to their brilliance, guts, mad skilllllzzzzzzz, and of course
> support from their fans on the internet. That's just how it works.


<sigh> ;-)


> > When (and if) the NETS move, I doubt I'll make the trek out to Brooklyn
to
> > see any games. Too much of a PITA to get there from where I live.
> >
>
> Will their games still be on TV in NJ?--Joe (n.j.) [mWo]

Sure they will, but I can't imagine looking at J-Kidd, K-Mart and RJ in
BROOKLYN NETS uniforms. It's going to be very strange should it come to
pass.

TC
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arnold kim

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Since: May 11, 2004
Posts: 4



(Msg. 12) Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 10:21 pm
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"Tutor" wrote in message

> jslater wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Brian S's late-game heroics in OT notwithstanding, the Nets are
> > clearly overmatched at center by not only Detroit but every other
> > upper-echelon team in the league. It's not realistic to think you're
> > going to have superstars at every position (although the Lakers come
> > close), but surely NJ could improve here.
>
>
> Well, Rod Thorn gambled on Alonzo Mourning and ended up with
> nothing more than a transplanted kidney and millions in wasted
> guaranteed money. Biggest mistake in many years by the Nets FO.
> Rumor is that Mourning was signed due to the persistent urging of
> Kidd. Big mistake.

Not if that's what it took to keep Kidd here.

Arnold Kim
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arnold kim

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Since: May 11, 2004
Posts: 4



(Msg. 13) Posted: Wed May 19, 2004 10:31 pm
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"hol99" wrote in message

> I don't get why guys who play bball for a living can't hit free throws. I
> think I could hit 70% if I played everyday. I can understand Shaq, because
> he has a mongoloid's head, and his eyes are too close together. He
probably
> sees two baskets and should shoot at a spot between the two of them. But
> anyone else should be able to at least hit 6 out of 10.

I think that at least part of it is psychological. For some players it's
one thing to shoot the ball on the spur of the moment with nine other guys
moving around on the court, it's something else when everyone is looking at
you and waiting for you to shoot it.

Arnold Kim
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jslater

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Since: Mar 11, 2004
Posts: 50



(Msg. 14) Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 6:58 am
Post subject: Re: So, anybody have anything to say about game 6? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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> > >
> > > It is a wash really. Nets get to the line a little more since these
> totals
> > > are for 1 more game.
> > > Playoffs Nets 225-308 .731 Pistons 222-298 .745
> > >
> > > The OT3 game was nets 42-55 76% and Pistons 30-42 71% (Ben 4-12) and
> game 6
> > > Detroit 12-22 54% (Ben 2-6) and Nets 19-26 73%
> >
> > The overall stats are interesting, but I was talking about the two
> > close games, and given the statistics (that you were nice enough to
> > look up and post), it's not really a "wash," is it?
>
>
> Not a wash for analyzing those two games. As a prediction of game 7 I think
> it is a wash. Using the bigger sample might be a better stat to work with
> remembering they will both be better rested . And because we do not know
> what officiating crew will be drawn, or how the game 7 might develop.

Fair enough. Do you think the officiating crew matters, in terms of
who will go to the line more?
>
> > It's also intriguing that in the two close games, the Nets went to the
> > line more. They had 13 more free throw attempts in game 5; and game 6
> > would have been 26-20 NJ instead of 26-22 but for that meaningless
> > foul with .2 seconds left. Kind of odd, given that Detroit is
> > supposed to be the half-court/inside scoring team.
>
> I do think Detroit settles for too many jumpers so likely gets to the line
> less from that, and are more likely to have to foul to stop Nets fast
> breaks.

Another good point.

> I am really reaching a little so forgive me when I am off the mark, I have
> not followed these teams much so have to rely on what I have seen in this
> series. =/

No, you're convincing me of a lot of things; keep it up!--Joe
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jslater

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Since: Mar 11, 2004
Posts: 50



(Msg. 15) Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 7:05 am
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>
> >On the bright side, I am very thankful that Zo
> > got the kidney he needed to survive.
>
> Absolutely.

Indeed. Helps to keep things in perspective.--Joe
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