good luck Georgetown!

On Mar 26, 5:31 pm, Jason Arndt <jar....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> Kevrobwrote:
> > On Mar 26, 3:35 pm, Milt Epstein <mepst....TakeThisOut@uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
> >>"Kevrob" <kev....TakeThisOut@my-deja.com> writes:
>
> >>>On Mar 25, 6:38 pm, elaich <a....TakeThisOut@b.c> wrote:
>
> >>>>"Kevrob" <kev....TakeThisOut@my-deja.com> wrote in news:1174865601.291912.294840
> >>>>@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:
>
> >>>>>Good on GU! That was some comeback, and the gubmint school from
> >>>>>North Carolina went into an astounding funk in the last part of
> >>>>>the 2nd half, which continued in the OT.
>
> >>>>The coach is a pussy, and his team mirrored his personality.
>
> >>>>Georgetown sucks. I might have to pull for a Big Ten school or a
> >>>>Pac Ten school for the first time. Georgetown echoes all that is
> >>>>wrong with college ball. Inner city thugs, etc. Why don't we just
> >>>>hire mercenaries? That's what schools like Georgetown does.
>
> >>>One good thing about a Jesuit education is that one learns to make
> >>>verbs agree with their subjects and objects.
>
> >>>There's nothing more thuggish than a state legislature robbing money
>
> >>>from me to fund a school I don't want to go to.
>
> >>Oh stuff it already. Education should be one of the most important
> >>missions of government. Whether or not it benefits some particular
> >>individual is not the issue, because it benefits society as a whole.
>
> > I'd disagree with your planted assumption that having the government
> > run education benefits anyone. I see it as a detriment to society.
> > School and state ought to be as separate as church and state or press
> > and state. Of course, if you happen to be an employee of a state
> > edumacational facility, you may be an interested party. Cui bono?
>
> Can you elaborate a bit on this? Are you for separation of education and
> state because you don't want the state injecting its philosophies on
> education or because you think privatized education would be of higher
> quality and/or cheaper? Or some third reason I don't mention?
 >> Stay informed about: good luck Georgetown! 

"Kevrob" <kevrob DeleteThis @my-deja.com> writes:

>On Mar 25, 6:38 pm, elaich <a... DeleteThis @b.c> wrote:
>> "Kevrob" <kev... DeleteThis @my-deja.com> wrote in news:1174865601.291912.294840
>> @o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> > Good on GU! That was some comeback, and the gubmint school from
>> > North Carolina went into an astounding funk in the last part of
>> > the 2nd half, which continued in the OT.
>>
>> The coach is a pussy, and his team mirrored his personality.
>>
>> Georgetown sucks. I might have to pull for a Big Ten school or a
>> Pac Ten school for the first time. Georgetown echoes all that is
>> wrong with college ball. Inner city thugs, etc. Why don't we just
>> hire mercenaries? That's what schools like Georgetown does.
>
>One good thing about a Jesuit education is that one learns to make
>verbs agree with their subjects and objects.
>
>There's nothing more thuggish than a state legislature robbing money
>from me to fund a school I don't want to go to.

Oh stuff it already. Education should be one of the most important
missions of government. Whether or not it benefits some particular
individual is not the issue, because it benefits society as a whole.


>I have no idea if the GU program is "dirty," or dirtier than the one
[ ... ]

I guess those Jesuits didn't teach you about "whether", eh.

--
Milt Epstein
mepstein DeleteThis @uiuc.edu
 >> Stay informed about: good luck Georgetown! 

On Mar 26, 5:31 pm, Jason Arndt <jar....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> Kevrob wrote:
> > On Mar 26, 3:35 pm, Milt Epstein <mepst....RemoveThis@uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
> >>"Kevrob" <kev....RemoveThis@my-deja.com> writes:
>
> >>>On Mar 25, 6:38 pm, elaich <a....RemoveThis@b.c> wrote:
>
> >>>>"Kevrob" <kev....RemoveThis@my-deja.com> wrote in news:1174865601.291912.294840
> >>>>@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:
>
> >>>>>Good on GU! That was some comeback, and the gubmint school from
> >>>>>North Carolina went into an astounding funk in the last part of
> >>>>>the 2nd half, which continued in the OT.
>
> >>>>The coach is a pussy, and his team mirrored his personality.
>
> >>>>Georgetown sucks. I might have to pull for a Big Ten school or a
> >>>>Pac Ten school for the first time. Georgetown echoes all that is
> >>>>wrong with college ball. Inner city thugs, etc. Why don't we just
> >>>>hire mercenaries? That's what schools like Georgetown does.
>
> >>>One good thing about a Jesuit education is that one learns to make
> >>>verbs agree with their subjects and objects.
>
> >>>There's nothing more thuggish than a state legislature robbing money
>
> >>>from me to fund a school I don't want to go to.
>
> >>Oh stuff it already. Education should be one of the most important
> >>missions of government. Whether or not it benefits some particular
> >>individual is not the issue, because it benefits society as a whole.
>
> > I'd disagree with your planted assumption that having the government
> > run education benefits anyone. I see it as a detriment to society.
> > School and state ought to be as separate as church and state or press
> > and state. Of course, if you happen to be an employee of a state
> > edumacational facility, you may be an interested party. Cui bono?
>
> Can you elaborate a bit on this? Are you for separation of education and
> state because you don't want the state injecting its philosophies on
> education or because you think privatized education would be of higher
> quality and/or cheaper? Or some third reason I don't mention?

Since you asked......

The first reason is the most important. The Press, the Church and
Schools all help form the character of the citizen. The citizenry
forms the Republic. When we let the state take over the school, we
put the servant in the place of the master. Even if government
schools taught philosophies that I happen to agree with, I would be
against them on general principles.

I do think that many private schools are superior to government ones,
and they are able to be run less expensively, but if all the public
schools turned private, I wouldn't depend much on saving any money.
There'd still have to be a serious charity effort to provide
scholarships to poor children, preceded by a transitional system of
state aid to students. (aka School Choice or vouchers.)

Kevin
 >> Stay informed about: good luck Georgetown! 

Archie Leach wrote:
>I'm hardly a Georgetown homer, but the way they came down from 9 down
>w/8 minutes left, and won it in overtime, to get payback finally, 25
>years later--full marks.

I had respect for the John Thompson (the elder) and Georgetown, until I
read that article about how he doesn't return the calls of any of his
former players except Ewing and Mourning. That's a damn shame, and I will
be rooting against Georgetown. They don't deserve the title if they can't
take care of their family.
 >> Stay informed about: good luck Georgetown! 

On Mar 26, 7:02 pm, Charlie Board <charNOTlieORTHISbo....RemoveThis@nc.rr.com>
wrote:
> Kevrob wrote:
> > On Mar 26, 3:35 pm, Milt Epstein <mepst....RemoveThis@uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
> >>Oh stuff it already. Education should be one of the most important
> >>missions of government. Whether or not it benefits some particular
> >>individual is not the issue, because it benefits society as a whole.
>
> > I'd disagree with your planted assumption that having the government
> > run education benefits anyone. I see it as a detriment to society.
>
> Sounds to me like *your* education in the area of economic history
> of the United States was sorely deficient.
>

Huh. It's usually those of us in favor of limited government who get
accused of economic reductionism. I'm all for universal education. I
just disagree about the best way to go about that.

> > School and state ought to be as separate as church and state or press
> > and state. Of course, if you happen to be an employee of a state
> > edumacational facility, you may be an interested party. Cui bono?

Kevin
 >> Stay informed about: good luck Georgetown! 

Jason Bell writes:

> I was listening to the national radio feed for the game, and the
> color commentary guy was clearly rooting for Georgetown to win.
>
> It was so bad, he actually took off his headset after the game and
> hugged Georgetown's coach.
>
> That's just unprofessional.

Taking off a headset and hugging someone requires visual evidence.
You just said that you were **listening** to the national **radio**
feed. Where's the visual evidence?
 >> Stay informed about: good luck Georgetown! 

tholen RemoveThis @antispam.ham wrote:

> Jason Bell writes:
>
>
>>I was listening to the national radio feed for the game, and the
>>color commentary guy was clearly rooting for Georgetown to win.
>>
>>It was so bad, he actually took off his headset after the game and
>>hugged Georgetown's coach.
>>
>>That's just unprofessional.
>
>
> Taking off a headset and hugging someone requires visual evidence.
> You just said that you were **listening** to the national **radio**
> feed. Where's the visual evidence?
>

The play-by-play guy seemed trustworthy throughout, so I went with his
continuation call.

Why am I even responding to you, since I have no visual evidence that
you are not a spam-bot? That was a rhetorical question, so any spam-bot
program initiation will be ignored hereafter by me.

- Jason Bell
 >> Stay informed about: good luck Georgetown! 

On Mar 27, 5:52 am, Charlie Board <charNOTlieORTHISbo... RemoveThis @nc.rr.com>
wrote:
> Kevrobwrote:
> > On Mar 26, 7:02 pm, Charlie Board <charNOTlieORTHISbo... RemoveThis @nc.rr.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >>Kevrobwrote:
>
> >>>On Mar 26, 3:35 pm, Milt Epstein <mepst... RemoveThis @uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
> >>>>Oh stuff it already. Education should be one of the most important
> >>>>missions of government. Whether or not it benefits some particular
> >>>>individual is not the issue, because it benefits society as a whole.
>
> >>>I'd disagree with your planted assumption that having the government
> >>>run education benefits anyone. I see it as a detriment to society.
>


> >>Sounds to me like *your* education in the area of economic history
> >>of the United States was sorely deficient.
>
> > Huh. It's usually those of us in favor of limited government who get
> > accused of economic reductionism. I'm all for universal education. I
> > just disagree about the best way to go about that.
>
> Please explain how you think we can have universal education without
> heavy state involvement. And why no other nation in the history of
> the world has stumbled onto this super secret yet.


Tax-funded school choice is a world-wide phenomenon.

http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=15212

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2007/03/22/market-education-is-not-a-theory/

http://preview.tinyurl.com/2ktost

Before Mann and Dewey, the Sunday School movement, originating in
Great Britain but spread to the U.S., was doing the best job at
extending education to the poor. Tax-funded common schools eventually
relegated it to a religion-only role.

Kevin
 >> Stay informed about: good luck Georgetown! 

Kevrob wrote:
> On Mar 26, 7:02 pm, Charlie Board <charNOTlieORTHISbo....RemoveThis@nc.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Kevrob wrote:
>>
>>>On Mar 26, 3:35 pm, Milt Epstein <mepst....RemoveThis@uiuc.edu> wrote:
>>
>>>>Oh stuff it already. Education should be one of the most important
>>>>missions of government. Whether or not it benefits some particular
>>>>individual is not the issue, because it benefits society as a whole.
>>>
>>>I'd disagree with your planted assumption that having the government
>>>run education benefits anyone. I see it as a detriment to society.
>>
>>Sounds to me like *your* education in the area of economic history
>>of the United States was sorely deficient.
>>
>
>
> Huh. It's usually those of us in favor of limited government who get
> accused of economic reductionism. I'm all for universal education. I
> just disagree about the best way to go about that.

Please explain how you think we can have universal education without
heavy state involvement. And why no other nation in the history of
the world has stumbled onto this super secret yet.
 >> Stay informed about: good luck Georgetown! 

Jason Bell writes:

>>> I was listening to the national radio feed for the game, and the
>>> color commentary guy was clearly rooting for Georgetown to win.
>>>
>>> It was so bad, he actually took off his headset after the game and
>>> hugged Georgetown's coach.
>>>
>>> That's just unprofessional.

>> Taking off a headset and hugging someone requires visual evidence.
>> You just said that you were **listening** to the national **radio**
>> feed. Where's the visual evidence?

> The play-by-play guy seemed trustworthy throughout, so I went with his
> continuation call.

In which case the proper reference would be to play-by-play guy's
continuation call and not your listening to the national radio feed.

> Why am I even responding to you,

Why are you asking me, Bell? Don't you know why you do what you do,
Bell?

> since I have no visual evidence that you are not a spam-bot?

Classic unsubstantiated and erroneous claim.

> That was a rhetorical question, so any spam-bot
> program initiation will be ignored hereafter by me.

Classic erroneous presupposition.
 >> Stay informed about: good luck Georgetown! 

"Kevrob" <kevrob RemoveThis @my-deja.com> writes:

>On Mar 26, 3:35 pm, Milt Epstein <mepst... RemoveThis @uiuc.edu> wrote:
[ ... ]
>> >There's nothing more thuggish than a state legislature robbing
>> >money from me to fund a school I don't want to go to.
>>
>> Oh stuff it already. Education should be one of the most important
>> missions of government. Whether or not it benefits some particular
>> individual is not the issue, because it benefits society as a
>> whole.
>
>I'd disagree with your planted assumption that having the government
>run education benefits anyone. I see it as a detriment to society.
>School and state ought to be as separate as church and state or press
>and state.

There may be theoretical/potential issues with having the government
involved in education (I think saying "government run education" is
misleading). But that's true for churches/religious institutions
running education and/or private businesses running education as well.
I mean, if you're worried about indoctrination and control, it
probably can't get any worse than church run education. And of
course, we see what a great situation we have currently with the press
-- a few mega-corporations controlling the vast majority of the media.
That's a real healthy situation. Hint: These days we have to worry
about control by large corporations at least as much if not more than
by government.

Of course, there are other problems with your comments. One is the
insidious way you keep slipping them into your posts. If you want to
have a discussion about it or, more likely, go on a diatribe about it,
don't be coy, just do it.

Another is your "there's nothing more thuggish" qualifier -- it's one
thing to say you don't like it, it's quite another to say it's the
worst thing government does.

Finally, if you're trying to argue for separation of school and state
in general, why do you add "a school I don't want to go to". Maybe
this belies your "on general principles" argument.

> Of course, if you happen to be an employee of a state
>edumacational facility, you may be an interested party. Cui bono?

Confusing cause and effect, or correlation and causation, is a common
fallacy.


>> >I have no idea if the GU program is "dirty," or dirtier than the one
>>
>> [ ... ]
>>
>> I guess those Jesuits didn't teach you about "whether", eh.
>
>Using "if" is pefectly fine in informal speech and writing.
[ ... ]

"if" in this case may be acceptable, but "whether" is
preferred/recommended.

--
Milt Epstein
mepstein RemoveThis @uiuc.edu
 >> Stay informed about: good luck Georgetown! 

On Mar 27, 5:53 pm, Charlie Board <charNOTlieORTHISbo....TakeThisOut@nc.rr.com>
wrote:
> Kevrob wrote:
> > On Mar 27, 5:52 am, Charlie Board <charNOTlieORTHISbo....TakeThisOut@nc.rr.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >>Kevrobwrote:
>
> >>>On Mar 26, 7:02 pm, Charlie Board <charNOTlieORTHISbo....TakeThisOut@nc.rr.com>
> >>>wrote:
>
> >>>>Kevrobwrote:
>
> >>>>>On Mar 26, 3:35 pm, Milt Epstein <mepst....TakeThisOut@uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>Oh stuff it already. Education should be one of the most important
> >>>>>>missions of government. Whether or not it benefits some particular
> >>>>>>individual is not the issue, because it benefits society as a whole.
>
> >>>>>I'd disagree with your planted assumption that having the government
> >>>>>run education benefits anyone. I see it as a detriment to society.
>
> >>>>Sounds to me like *your* education in the area of economic history
> >>>>of the United States was sorely deficient.
>
> >>>Huh. It's usually those of us in favor of limited government who get
> >>>accused of economic reductionism. I'm all for universal education. I
> >>>just disagree about the best way to go about that.
>
> >>Please explain how you think we can have universal education without
> >>heavy state involvement. And why no other nation in the history of
> >>the world has stumbled onto this super secret yet.
>
> > Tax-funded school choice is a world-wide phenomenon.
>
> Now hang on. First you say you want a "complete separation" between the
> state and education. Then you say you're all for them paying the bills?
> You don't seem to understand the concept of separation.

Just because I don't like the way things are now, and wish they were
otherwise, doesn't mean that I don't realize that some transitional
structure won't be necessary if we ever decide to go down that road.
Converting subsidy of the school to taxpayer-paid scholarships could
be followed by a privatization of the scholarship fund. It would be
wonderful if we could snap our fingers and avoid any interim steps,
but I expect some would be required. Phase out the old system and
phase in the new one.

Independently owned and managed schools with taxpayer subsidized
students isn't a perfect solution, but it is does have advantages over
the normal U.S.arrangements.

Kevin
 >> Stay informed about: good luck Georgetown! 

Kevrob wrote:
> On Mar 27, 5:52 am, Charlie Board <charNOTlieORTHISbo... DeleteThis @nc.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Kevrobwrote:
>>
>>>On Mar 26, 7:02 pm, Charlie Board <charNOTlieORTHISbo... DeleteThis @nc.rr.com>
>>>wrote:
>>
>>>>Kevrobwrote:
>>>
>>>>>On Mar 26, 3:35 pm, Milt Epstein <mepst... DeleteThis @uiuc.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>Oh stuff it already. Education should be one of the most important
>>>>>>missions of government. Whether or not it benefits some particular
>>>>>>individual is not the issue, because it benefits society as a whole.
>>>>>
>>>>>I'd disagree with your planted assumption that having the government
>>>>>run education benefits anyone. I see it as a detriment to society.
>>>>
>
>
>>>>Sounds to me like *your* education in the area of economic history
>>>>of the United States was sorely deficient.
>>>
>>>Huh. It's usually those of us in favor of limited government who get
>>>accused of economic reductionism. I'm all for universal education. I
>>>just disagree about the best way to go about that.
>>
>>Please explain how you think we can have universal education without
>>heavy state involvement. And why no other nation in the history of
>>the world has stumbled onto this super secret yet.
>
>
>
> Tax-funded school choice is a world-wide phenomenon.

Now hang on. First you say you want a "complete separation" between the
state and education. Then you say you're all for them paying the bills?
You don't seem to understand the concept of separation.
 >> Stay informed about: good luck Georgetown!