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Next: New York Knicks: Surprising
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Since: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 361
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(Msg. 16) Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:15 pm
Post subject: Re: This doesn't make sense [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>sports>basketball>pro>ny-knicks (more info?)
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On Jul 14, 1:03 pm, "Glenn Greenstein" <glen.jack... RemoveThis @worldnet.att.net>
wrote:
> SO you think we should have taken the second round pick for him? IOW's let
> the Clippers have him for nothing?
Yes, if 2010 is a real priority and they're not just blowing smoke up
our asses.
They've got four contracts totalling $45.4M going into 2010-2011:
Zach, Eddy, Jamal, and Jared. The biggest piece, of course, is
Zach's: $17,330,000 for one season of Zach Randolph basketball. I
really hope it's just a false rumor and Walsh didn't really blow the
opportunity to take $17.3M off the cap for 2010 without having to take
any salary back or include Lee in the deal. |
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Since: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 361
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(Msg. 17) Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:25 pm
Post subject: Re: This doesn't make sense [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Jul 14, 1:03 pm, "Capn'O" <dan.zin....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> So hopefully he'll come back to this deal if there's not another one
> he likes better. Or maybe he can finagle a little more out of the
> Clips since they're already the ones asking.
If it was true, it's beginning to look too late. The Clips are
already moving on to better options, it seems.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=...News-08
"The Clips have a variety of options to consider with $12 million-plus
in salary-cap space and figure they'll need up to a week to plot their
course, although they did meet face-to-face with Atlanta Hawks
restricted free agent Josh Smith in L.A. on the same day Brand was
introduced as the newest member of the Philadelphia 76ers.
The most likely scenario, I'm told, is still signing one of the top
"restricteds" (as the GMs and agents like to call them) to an offer
sheet. According to NBA front-office sources, L.A. has expanded its
list of restricted candidates beyond Smith and Charlotte's Emeka
Okafor to Chicago's Luol Deng and, yes, Philadelphia's Andre
Iguodala."
> Walsh hasn't typically gone for straight salary dumps...
Well, when you've got more salary than anyone in the league tying up a
lottery team for years, it's time to do something a little less
typical. |
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Since: Jun 23, 2005
Posts: 726
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(Msg. 18) Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:56 pm
Post subject: Re: This doesn't make sense [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Dan Gaters" <dan.gaters.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:C49FEDE9.2F680%dan.gaters@earthlink.net...
> Glenn Greenstein:
>
>> So second chance rebounding is a bad thing in D's system?
>
> Generally, if two of your five players don't even make it to the paint
> area
> in under 7 secs, they are not collecting many second-chance balls in his
> system. Ask D' how the Shaq trade worked out.
>
> DG
>
Dan, in general I agree with what you are saying, but these comparisons you
are making are not that good. Shaq is a senior citizen in the NBA, Zach is
not. Zach can run if he is motivated and in shape. If Shaq tries to run in a
system like this, he will be in a wheel chair by mid season. His body just
can't do it.
I personally think though, that more or less, Zach is not going to work out
that well unless D' adjusts his system for him. Let's see if D' tries to put
a round peg in a square hole, or if starts to file down the corners of the
square hole so the round peg fits a bit better. >> Stay informed about: This doesn't make sense |
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Since: Oct 11, 2006
Posts: 646
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(Msg. 19) Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:56 pm
Post subject: Re: This doesn't make sense [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Since: Apr 14, 2006
Posts: 468
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(Msg. 20) Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:12 pm
Post subject: Re: This doesn't make sense [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Jul 14, 3:25 pm, Noah <dontsendmeyers... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 14, 1:03 pm, "Capn'O" <dan.zin... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > So hopefully he'll come back to this deal if there's not another one
> > he likes better. Or maybe he can finagle a little more out of the
> > Clips since they're already the ones asking.
>
> If it was true, it's beginning to look too late. The Clips are
> already moving on to better options, it seems.
>
> http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page...
>
> "The Clips have a variety of options to consider with $12 million-plus
> in salary-cap space and figure they'll need up to a week to plot their
> course, although they did meet face-to-face with Atlanta Hawks
> restricted free agent Josh Smith in L.A. on the same day Brand was
> introduced as the newest member of the Philadelphia 76ers.
>
> The most likely scenario, I'm told, is still signing one of the top
> "restricteds" (as the GMs and agents like to call them) to an offer
> sheet. According to NBA front-office sources, L.A. has expanded its
> list of restricted candidates beyond Smith and Charlotte's Emeka
> Okafor to Chicago's Luol Deng and, yes, Philadelphia's Andre
> Iguodala."
This is likely a bluff on the Clipper's part... just as Donnie's play
was a bluff. Clips need a PF and won't likely get any of the above
players for varying reasons. There is something else on that roster
that Donnie wants. My guess is DeAndre Jordan but it could be
something else. Donnie's hedging his bets here but the Clippers are
still talking with us... they didn't back away when Donnie said no. So
hopefully he's made the right call. >> Stay informed about: This doesn't make sense |
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Posts: 361
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(Msg. 21) Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:11 pm
Post subject: Re: This doesn't make sense [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Jul 14, 5:14 pm, Lee Watkins <lwatkins.nos....DeleteThis@nospam.juno.com>
wrote:
> addition by subtraction.
>
> how many teams are going to offer cap relief for him? id take the 2nd
> rounder and the cap room and call it a day.
Thank you.
> assuming of course, you'll be able to clear enough other bad contracts
> by 2010.
Right now there's four, but that's the biggest one by far. Crawford
can probably be traded when he's closer to being done with his
contract. A David Lee/Jared Jeffries package for cap relief would get
rid of the third and bring the magic number down to $11M for Curry,
who I think we're stuck with until 2011. >> Stay informed about: This doesn't make sense |
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(Msg. 22) Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:14 pm
Post subject: Re: This doesn't make sense [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Jul 14, 4:12 pm, "Capn'O" <dan.zin... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> This is likely a bluff on the Clipper's part... just as Donnie's play
> was a bluff.
You don't think they'll sign Josh Smith or Emeka Okafor to an offer
sheet if they get the chance? Clips are going to have to move fast to
save face.
> Clips need a PF and won't likely get any of the above
> players for varying reasons.
Both Atlanta and Charlotte are cheap. If the Clippers were seriously
going to take Randolph at $14-17M per year, there's no reason to think
they wouldn't do the same for either Smith or Okafor, which the other
teams would be hard pressed to match...and probably come out better
off.
> There is something else on that roster
> that Donnie wants. My guess is DeAndre Jordan but it could be
> something else.
He wants Gordon, but he's not going to get him. Getting greedy here
could really burn.
> Donnie's hedging his bets here but the Clippers are
> still talking with us... they didn't back away when Donnie said no.
How do you know that? >> Stay informed about: This doesn't make sense |
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Posts: 468
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(Msg. 23) Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:23 pm
Post subject: Re: This doesn't make sense [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Jul 14, 6:14 pm, Noah <dontsendmeyers... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 14, 4:12 pm, "Capn'O" <dan.zin... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > This is likely a bluff on the Clipper's part... just as Donnie's play
> > was a bluff.
>
> You don't think they'll sign Josh Smith or Emeka Okafor to an offer
> sheet if they get the chance? Clips are going to have to move fast to
> save face.
>
> > Clips need a PF and won't likely get any of the above
> > players for varying reasons.
>
> Both Atlanta and Charlotte are cheap. If the Clippers were seriously
> going to take Randolph at $14-17M per year, there's no reason to think
> they wouldn't do the same for either Smith or Okafor, which the other
> teams would be hard pressed to match...and probably come out better
> off.
>
> > There is something else on that roster
> > that Donnie wants. My guess is DeAndre Jordan but it could be
> > something else.
>
> He wants Gordon, but he's not going to get him. Getting greedy here
> could really burn.
>
> > Donnie's hedging his bets here but the Clippers are
> > still talking with us... they didn't back away when Donnie said no.
>
> How do you know that?
Imma table this discussion until we see what happens. >> Stay informed about: This doesn't make sense |
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Since: Jun 23, 2005
Posts: 726
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(Msg. 24) Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:03 pm
Post subject: Re: This doesn't make sense [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Dan Gaters" <dan.gaters.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:C4A0F90E.2F6CB%dan.gaters@earthlink.net...
> Glenn Greenstein:
>
>> Zach can run if he is motivated and in shape.
>
> Are we back to "potential" again?
> Isiah Lord Thomas III called, says hi.
>
> DG
>
SO you think we should have taken the second round pick for him? IOW's let
the Clippers have him for nothing? >> Stay informed about: This doesn't make sense |
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(Msg. 25) Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:03 pm
Post subject: Re: This doesn't make sense [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Glenn Greenstein wrote:
> "Dan Gaters" <dan.gaters DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:C4A0F90E.2F6CB%dan.gaters@earthlink.net...
>> Glenn Greenstein:
>>
>>> Zach can run if he is motivated and in shape.
>> Are we back to "potential" again?
>> Isiah Lord Thomas III called, says hi.
>>
>> DG
>>
> SO you think we should have taken the second round pick for him? IOW's let
> the Clippers have him for nothing?
>
>
addition by subtraction.
how many teams are going to offer cap relief for him? id take the 2nd
rounder and the cap room and call it a day.
assuming of course, you'll be able to clear enough other bad contracts
by 2010.
lee >> Stay informed about: This doesn't make sense |
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(Msg. 26) Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:04 pm
Post subject: Re: This doesn't make sense [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Noah" <dontsendmeyerspam.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:59f31db0-79bf-48ea-8b9d-7a4e4cfa8147@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 14, 8:56 am, "Glenn Greenstein" <glen.jack....RemoveThis@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:
> Zach can run if he is motivated and in shape.
That's a big if, that he hasn't very consistently made good on yet in
many years. Not here and not in Portland.
True. I guess I'm being optimistic again.
The shame of it :) >> Stay informed about: This doesn't make sense |
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(Msg. 27) Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:06 pm
Post subject: Re: This doesn't make sense [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Lee Watkins" <lwatkins.nospam.TakeThisOut@nospam.juno.com> wrote in message
news:g5ftdr$okp$1@news.tamu.edu...
> Noah wrote:
>> On Jul 13, 10:46 am, Pablo <pab....TakeThisOut@stwing.spmBGone.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I think that's the strategy Walsh is trying. If he believes D'Antoni
>>> can
>>> get Zach to play well in his system, it would make sense to play him and
>>> raise his future trade value.
>>
>> That's an awful big gamble. It assumes D'Antoni has a "system" that
>> actually works with this roster (doubt it -- again, we've never seen
>> the D'Antoni "system" without Steve Nash, who also ran the "D'Antoni
>> system" under Don Nelson in Dallas before meeting D') and that
>> Randolph can fit into it. He ain't exactly Shawn Marion.
>>
>> If he doesn't (most likely) and the Knicks lose most of their games,
>> regardless of whatever individual numbers he puts up, his value will
>> continue to plummet rather than rise, and we'll be stuck with him for
>> the duration.
>>
>> Teams are not going to be lining up to pay Zach Randolph $48M until
>> 2011. The current panic in Clipperland from Elton Brand bailing is
>> the perfect opportunity to take advantage of -- no other bad contracts
>> to take back and be saddled with. I have my doubts as to whether or
>> not that opportunity will come again.
>
> i gotta agree.
>
> if the goal is salary dump for 2010...you take the 2nd rounder and call it
> a day. what would you guys hold out for? an unprotected 1st? a lotto
> protected 1st? do the clips have any player worth taking back?
>
> it would seem to me that both teams think they have the edge over the
> other. NY thinks the clips are desperate for a scorer, and LA think NY is
> desperate to move zach.
>
> i'm not sure if either team could really get a much better deal. but the
> chance to dump randolph without throwing in lee.....you gotta admit,
> thinking big picture, thats not a bad deal.
>
> lee
I have a feeling D' may have plans for Zach other than cutting him loose. If
so, this was the right move (not to trade him). >> Stay informed about: This doesn't make sense |
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(Msg. 28) Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:06 pm
Post subject: Re: This doesn't make sense [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Glenn Greenstein wrote:
> "Lee Watkins" <lwatkins.nospam.DeleteThis@nospam.juno.com> wrote in message
> news:g5ftdr$okp$1@news.tamu.edu...
>> Noah wrote:
>>> On Jul 13, 10:46 am, Pablo <pab....DeleteThis@stwing.spmBGone.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think that's the strategy Walsh is trying. If he believes D'Antoni
>>>> can
>>>> get Zach to play well in his system, it would make sense to play him and
>>>> raise his future trade value.
>>> That's an awful big gamble. It assumes D'Antoni has a "system" that
>>> actually works with this roster (doubt it -- again, we've never seen
>>> the D'Antoni "system" without Steve Nash, who also ran the "D'Antoni
>>> system" under Don Nelson in Dallas before meeting D') and that
>>> Randolph can fit into it. He ain't exactly Shawn Marion.
>>>
>>> If he doesn't (most likely) and the Knicks lose most of their games,
>>> regardless of whatever individual numbers he puts up, his value will
>>> continue to plummet rather than rise, and we'll be stuck with him for
>>> the duration.
>>>
>>> Teams are not going to be lining up to pay Zach Randolph $48M until
>>> 2011. The current panic in Clipperland from Elton Brand bailing is
>>> the perfect opportunity to take advantage of -- no other bad contracts
>>> to take back and be saddled with. I have my doubts as to whether or
>>> not that opportunity will come again.
>> i gotta agree.
>>
>> if the goal is salary dump for 2010...you take the 2nd rounder and call it
>> a day. what would you guys hold out for? an unprotected 1st? a lotto
>> protected 1st? do the clips have any player worth taking back?
>>
>> it would seem to me that both teams think they have the edge over the
>> other. NY thinks the clips are desperate for a scorer, and LA think NY is
>> desperate to move zach.
>>
>> i'm not sure if either team could really get a much better deal. but the
>> chance to dump randolph without throwing in lee.....you gotta admit,
>> thinking big picture, thats not a bad deal.
>>
>> lee
>
> I have a feeling D' may have plans for Zach other than cutting him loose. If
> so, this was the right move (not to trade him).
>
>
if this is true, of course you dont give him away. but if this is true,
how does that affect "target-2010"
lee >> Stay informed about: This doesn't make sense |
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(Msg. 29) Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:40 pm
Post subject: Re: This doesn't make sense [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Glenn Greenstein:
> IOW's let the Clippers have him for nothing?
Define "something".
If we could believe W/D' for one nanosecond, our ultimate goal is to get
under the cap for 2010. Our goal is not to get "something" for Zach. It took
Isiah Lord Thomas III five years to not understand this.
DG >> Stay informed about: This doesn't make sense |
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(Msg. 30) Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:54 am
Post subject: Re: This doesn't make sense [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Jul 15, 8:30 am, "Glenn Greenstein" <glen.jack....DeleteThis@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:
> I would be pretty upset if a Lee/Jeffries deal was turned down, but I bet at
> some point, we will still trade Zach for something more than a useless
> 2nd.round pick.
Yeah, probably another big contract instead of the cap space.
Wheee.... >> Stay informed about: This doesn't make sense |
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